[ShnuggMac]

I apologize in advance if this is not the correct area to post this query; I considered putting it under "Newbie" but was not sure if that was ideal either, so if this is not the suitable area for the questions (moderators) or another member please feel free to move it or point me in the right direction to where it would be more appropriate....

Let me explain the situation from scratch, first, because I had some of these issues addressed in here some time ago but the "conditions" and symptoms were never really resolved. Being a long-time home theater enthusiast and becoming completely and utterly comfortable with the workings of the standard definition DVD soundtracks and connections and such (coaxial/optical connections, Dolby Digital/DTS audio), I was excited to take the next evolutionary jump into high definition and hear these new "high resolution surround codecs" which were supposed to provide audio leaps and bounds beyond what compressed Dolby and DTS tracks could offer; not to mention the gorgeous 1080p video resolution which was supposed to look so real, rich and popping that it would be almost as if the actors were in our laps....so catalogs like "Crutchfield" would have us believe....

At any rate, eager to buy into this confusing and misleading world of HDMI cables and alphanumeric references to codecs and resolutions, me and my better half purchased an Onkyo TX-SR605 receiver, which does all the next-generation formats, and a Panasonic Blu-ray player (the second-generation model, with the "A" at the end of the model code). We also purchased a Sony SXRD rear projection 50" screen to watch it all on. Working with an installer who was recommended to us in this area, he and I hooked everything up and I have been living with this system for a good month or so now, yet I have many questions and concerns about the way this system is behaving...

First of all, let me explain how the system is all set up so someone could confirm for me that everything is connected right. We have the Blu ray player's HDMI OUT (connected with a Monster HDMI cable speed rated to pass the latest uncompressed audio and high def video if I am not mistaken; this was a $100 cable) running right to the Onkyo's HDMI IN 1....from there, we have another HDMI cable (purchased by me from the installer who claimed this was a great, shielded, high performance cable; it cost me 70 bucks but this thing is black and THICK) running from the Onkyo's HDMI OUT terminal to my Sony TV's HDMI IN. In the receiver, everything seems to be set right -- the HDMI MONITOR is ON to pass the video, etc; this Sony display can accept and display 1080p images, and the Panasonic Blu ray player can play 1080p images, so I am assuming 1080p, when set that way in the player, is passing RIGHT THROUGH the receiver with no degredation of the signal....yet, discs dont look all that great. Ill get to that in a minute.

Now, I SPECIFICALLY and ONLY bought this receiver because it could decode the next generation surround formats -- I was coming off of an older Onkyo TX-SR600 which worked just fine and would have continued to be the centerpiece of my system if not for the fact that I wanted to hear these next generation codecs...alas, I was misled by salesmen in my area and other media hype that these second generation Blu ray players could pass these new formats via bitstream to the new receivers like my Onkyo, which I found out they cannot. That was after I spent 600 bucks on the player. So now let me get into the specifics of the problems I am having with the gear.

It all seems to be coming from settings in the Panasonic player's menu...perhaps I simply do not have something set right, or it may be plain old fashioned high expectations for this technology, but something is getting me utterly confused. First of all, in the player's SETUP menu, there are selections under the AUDIO menu for "DIGITAL AUDIO OUTPUT" -- which the MANUAL says are for adjusting audio coming from the player's COAX or OPTICAL outputs -- nothing about HDMI. The only connection I have made is with HDMI from this unit; under this menu are selections for EVERY codec available with this machine: Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS and DTS HD -- Master Audio is not supported. Now, I had originally set, along with my installer, all of these to BITSTREAM, but later changed the settings of the high resolution codecs to PCM when I found out the player couldn't pass the bitstream signals to my receiver. So, when playing standard definition DVDs, the audio tracks pass just fine -- I select Dolby Digital or DTS from the disc menu and my receiver lights up "DOLBY D" or "DTS" on the front display, as always...so no problems there. The issues have been coming in with the Blu ray discs and their soundtracks.

On many Blu ray titles, as everyone knows, there are these "Uncompressed PCM" soundtracks to choose from; I was told and informed that these were excellent to listen to in comparison to other lossy legacy codecs. However, when watching titles like Spider Man 3 or Pirates of the Caribbenan, choosing the Uncompressed 5.1 option makes my receiver read "MULTICH" on the display and illuminates the small "HDMI/PCM/MULTICHANNEL" logos above it, making we wonder if the system is operating correctly....am I hearing the uncompressed audio if the receiver is displaying this information? And that leads to another issue. Why don't these uncompressed tracks sound that great to me? I seem to lose LFE level when playing these tracks (I have actually heard that using the multichannel mode of these receivers drops bass by 10dB or so...is this true?) and there seems to be a loss of directionality; like the audio is coming through in surround, yes, with directional information in the surrounds when they're supposed to be...but the overall impact doesnt feel like regular Dolby/DTS surround....like something is missing....is this normal?

Now, here is the next issue: when playing tracks that need to be "downmixed," I dont really understand what is going on or what the best way to play them would be....let me explain. This Panasonic deck does not support "DTS Master Audio," and according to the manual, standard DTS will be used as an alternative here....so, with the few Fox titles I have on Blu ray, like "Live Free or Die Hard" and the "Fantastic 4" discs, the Master Audio tracks seem to behave weird in my system....if I keep the "DTS-HD" audio setting in the player on BITSTREAM when playing these tracks, the receiver and player do the HDMI handshake and then the receiver reads "DTS" on the display while the audio display on the Blu ray player's onscreen information grid reads "DTS HD MULTI"....this suggests to me that the player is extracting the "core" DTS mix from the Master Audio track and sending that to the receiver....if I leave the "DTS-HD" setting in the player on PCM and then play these Master Audio tracks, then the receiver displays the exact same thing it does when playing the Uncompressed PCM tracks -- it reads "MULTICH" in the middle of the display and then "HDMI/PCM/MULTICHANNEL" in small logos above it....what is going on here? The manual suggests that by keeping PCM set for these high resolution audio codecs, the machine is decoding the soundtrack and sending a 2-channel signal to the receiver -- but is that what is really happening? What am I hearing when sending these "Master Audio" tracks from the discs in PCM form as opposed to BITSTREAM? Which is the "better" way to listen to them? To be honest, leaving the setting on BITSTREAM and watching "Live Free or Die Hard" last night, the "Master Audio" track sounded punchier, heavier and better with this "extracted core DTS" mix, or whatever was going on, than by running the mix with the PCM setting from the player and letting the receiver see a "Multichannel" signal....something just seemed to be missing doing it that way....but what the heck is actually going on here? There was DEFINITELY much more bass and punch by leaving the player on BITSTREAM in the "DTS-HD" audio setting. But is this right?

And that leads to another serious question regarding the settings on this player...first of all, if the manual is claiming that this "DIGITAL AUDIO OUTPUT" menu, under SETUP, is for affecting changes to the coax and optical outs, then WHY are the high definition codecs, which cannot be passed this way and only through HDMI, available to be adjusted in this menu?? In other words, why are Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS HD available to be adjusted (PCM/BITSTREAM) in this "DIGITAL AUDIO OUTPUT" setup menu when these are only being affected by HDMI audio? There IS an HDMI menu in the SETUP menu, which offers selections of HDMI AUDIO ON or OFF and HDMI VIDEO ON or OFF, plus resolution selections up to 1080p (I keep this setting on AUTO, which chooses 1080p because of my TV it is connected to)....but the main audio choices are in that DIGITAL AUDIO OUTPUT menu which allows selections for BITSTREAM or PCM for ALL audio codecs supported by this machine....is this weird or am I just missing something? Should I keep the legacy codecs (Dolby Digital/DTS) on BITSTREAM, since these could be passed, and the new codecs on PCM? But then why did "Live Free or Die Hard" sound better when I switched the "DTS-HD" audio selection to BITSTREAM? And nothing needs to be switched or set for these "Uncompressed PCM" tracks, correct? These just get passed as is to the receiver -- no setting anywhere needs to be made for PCM/BITSTREAM, etc? I have heard conflicting opinions on the best way to listen to these tracks -- via the receiver's MULTICHANNEL mode, which mine defaults to when playing these tracks, or through the DIRECT mode, which I have been told actually eliminates the LFE channel and all bass management and such; what mode should be used here?

Now, what is going on with the "SPEAKER SETTINGS" menu under the SETUP MENU's CONNECTION tab? Here, you can set the player to "MULTI CHANNEL" or "2 CHANNEL"....the manual states that by setting the speakers to MULTI CHANNEL, this sends the signal to a receiver or processor that CANNOT do calibration levels, distances, etc (which of course my Onkyo, and almost all other ones do) so the PLAYER handles it internally....by setting the speakers to 2-CHANNEL, this sends the signals to a receiver that CAN decode formats, do levels, etc....but, when playing with these settings, something weird happens on my system. You would think, based on what the manual says, I should keep this setting on 2-CHANNEL because I AM connected to equipment that decode formats and such; but by keeping the player on 2-CHANNEL, this screws with multichannel PCM signals coming into the receiver, allowing me to use those weird DSP modes like "All Channel Stereo" and "Orchestra"....leaving the speaker setting on MULTICHANNEL locks the player into the MULTICHANNEL mode when playing PCM tracks; but this seems backwards compared to what the manual is saying....can someone clarify this for me? What the heck should this be set to.....and why?

Now, if the player is set to MULTI CHANNEL, is this somehow affecting bass management and time delays, etc. at my receiver when playing these high resolution audio codecs in PCM? It seems, as I said, I am losing LFE levels when playing these tracks in PCM and the receiver reads "MULTICH" on the display; is something being affected here, because when setting the player to Multi Channel for speaker output, there is a separate menu there for adjusting the speaker levels, sizes, distance delays, etc....but this was already done in my receiver -- but is anything being affected here when passing the PCM tracks of these sound mixes to the receiver via multichannel PCM with the player set to "MULTI CHANNEL"? I mean, are the sounds from the player's speaker setup (even though I have everything set to ZERO on these) affecting the audio with this setup? I want the receiver to handle all bass management and calibrations. Can someone lend some insight here?

I have a great deal more to discuss, but I'm off with the better half now do to some chores and such, so if someone could please take a moment to read this and assist with at least some of it I would greatly, greatly appreciate it and reply as soon as I get another chance. Thank you in advance!