Comtemplating the 2.35:1 screen...

**Sonnie** · **01-26-09, 01:54 AM**

The Panasonic PT-AE3000 is looking like it may be the next PJ to end up in my HT room.

I still have to decide on a screen size and aspect ratio.

Here is a clip about the 3000 and Lens Memory, which looks promising to me.

Quote:

Lens Memory lets you automatically set the zoom lens to a wide angle setting to fill a 2.35 screen, so that you can view a 2.35 format film in full frame without any black bars. Then when you switch to a 16:9 source such as HDTV or a 1.78 film, you can press a button, and the projector will automatically zoom the lens to a position where the 16:9 image fills your screen vertically. And, unless the projector is positioned exactly at a height equal to the middle of the screen, a vertical compensation adjustment is required to get the image to center vertically on the screen. The AE3000 automatically makes this adjustment as well. Essentially, this eliminates the expense of a separate anamorphic lens.

If I understand this correctly, I can setup my screen for a 2.35:1 aspect ratio using a screen height of 50", the width will be approximately 118" with a diagonal screen of 128". If I use the Panasonic 3000, I can set the Lens Memory for this AR. If I watch something with a 16:9 AR, I can adjust the size of the image to match the height of the the 2.35:1 AR with the overall image being 50" high x 89" wide and 102" diagonal. I then set the Lens Memory for the 16:9 image. Depending on what AR I am watching, I can recall the Lens Memory setting with the press of a button on the remote. There can also be a setting for 4:3 AR. This keeps the image height constant, but creates black bars on aspect ratios less than 2.35:1. Of course there would be very narrow bars top and bottom with 2.40:1 aspect ratios, although minor and hardly noticeable.

The bottom picture is more than likely what I would be looking at.

Am I thinking along the right lines here?

**hddummy** · **01-26-09, 06:50 AM**

I believe you are correct sir.

**Prof.** · **01-26-09, 06:06 PM**

The feature on that projector called "Lens Memory" is not the same as anamorphic projection..
Basically all it's doing is zooming the lens to preset AR's..just as you would normally do with manual zooming..
It does not give you 1:1 mapping, as you have with CIH projection, so therefore your pixels are being expanded vertically and horizontally..
At the same time, you're losing 33 percent of your pixels in the black bars when you zoom out for a 2.35:1 AR..

Now for a good quality 1080p. projector this may not be too noticeable, but the bigger the screen the better chance there is of of seeing some deterioration in the image quality, compared to the non zoomed image..

My advise would be, if you want the absolute best image quality on a large screen, get a good anamorphic lens and set it up for CIH projection...
The impact of this type of image is quite breath taking..

**Sonnie** · **01-26-09, 08:45 PM**

With this projector... I would not see any issues even at full zoom 2:1... and I won't be there.

If I stick with a 15' throw range, I would be at 1.75 zoom on 2.35:1.

I could always use a throw distance of 19' and be at 1.1 zoom using 2.35:1, and 1.34:1 zoom using 16:9.

The convenience is pushing a button for the proper aspect ratio... how nice can that be?

**Prof.** · **01-26-09, 09:01 PM**

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

I could always use a throw distance of 19' and be at 1.1 zoom using 2.35:1, and 1.34:1 zoom using 16:9.

That would be the best way to set up the projector if you're not going anamorphic..

**Sonnie** · **01-26-09, 09:21 PM**

Actually... I had that backwards. 1.34:1 zoom would be the 2.35:1. 1:1 zoom would be the 16:9.

**Sonnie** · **01-27-09, 12:42 AM**

I think I may be confused.

With the Panasonic 3000... what will happen to the black bars that are normally seen on 2.35:1 aspect ratio's? This is not its native aspect ratio.

**hddummy** · **01-27-09, 06:19 AM**

Unless the projector has some method of masking the bars internally, the projector will still produce the black bars. They will be shown above and below the actual screen. All you are doing is expanding the projected image so that the portion that has picture on it fills the screen height on the wall. If you have dark matte paint/material around the screen, then the black bars should not be visible. Regardless, when you are sucked into a movie, who would really notice anyway.

**Sonnie** · **01-27-09, 09:43 AM**

So this is where anamorphic projection comes in handy... at least one of the benefits.

**Prof.** · **01-27-09, 06:09 PM**

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

So this is where anamorphic projection comes in handy... at least one of the benefits.

As I understand it..and I may be wrong..you won't see any black bars with that projector, when projecting a 2.35:1 image, because the projector has zoomed them off the screen with this lens memory system..

With an anamorphic system..the 2.35:1 image is firstly, electronically stretched vertically, so there are no black bars top or bottom ( without any zooming ) and then optically stretched horizontally, to fill the width of the screen..
That way you don't lose any pixels, maintaining a 1:1 mapping of the pixel structure..

**Sonnie** · **01-27-09, 06:12 PM**

And how much is an anamorphic projection system if I do it myself... although I doubt I could.

**Prof.** · **01-27-09, 06:34 PM**

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

And how much is an anamorphic projection system if I do it myself... although I doubt I could.

If you mean by "doing it yourself"..buying a lens kit and assembling it yourself..then you're probably looking at about $600.00US for a local brand..
Otherwise, if you're talking about a commercial product such as Panamorph...well here are some prices for you...
http://www.panamorph.com/pages/products.htm..

Either way, if you can build theatre, then it should be well within your capabilities to assemble a lens..and help is available here if you need it..

**Sonnie** · **01-27-09, 07:51 PM**

Where are the lens kits for $600 and which would they compare to on that link page you posted above? I see some of those are $2,000-3500... what makes them better and are they really needed?

**Mark Techer** · **01-28-09, 12:34 AM**

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

Where are the lens kits for $600 and which would they compare to on that link page you posted above? I see some of those are $2,000-3500... what makes them better and are they really needed?

I am sorry, but is your question what makes a $2000 - $3500 lens better than a $600 lens? The answer is addional or corrective optical elements. I say yes you do need them, but in the end, you need to see the image for yourself.

The difference between zooming (what you intended to do with the new Panny) and using a lens is simple. When you zoom, you throw away 25% of the vertical rez. When you use a lens, you use 100% of the projector's panel. Also when you zoom, your pixels become larger in both directions, where the lens only expands the pixels horizontally...

Mark

**Sonnie** · **01-28-09, 12:55 AM**

I guess I never saw the full capabilities of my Panasonic PT-AE2000. It was mounted at 12' with a 97" diagonal screen. That means it was zoomed to 1.6:1. It still looked stellar though. In my suggested setup, I will not be zooming 16:9 at all anymore... and 2.35:1 will only be zoomed to 1.4:1. In both cases this will be superior to my last setup.

**Mark Techer** · **01-28-09, 07:45 AM**

And it scales for CIH if at point you want to add a lens and be able to use the full 1920 x 1080 panel...

Mark

**Sonnie** · **01-28-09, 07:53 AM**

Yes... the 3000 is setup nicely for adding a CIH setup, which I may very well tackle on the DIY side after I get the HT finished.

**Mark Techer** · **01-28-09, 08:39 AM**

And so is the 2000 you have now as it has VS and HS already built in. Apart from automated zoom, the 3000 does not offer that much more unless you intend zooming and don't want to get up out of your chair. If using a lens, you won't need to zoom anyway...

Mark

**Sonnie** · **01-28-09, 09:38 AM**

Oh no... I don't have the 2000 anymore, but I see what you mean. Of course the convenience of the Lens Memory on the 3000 does make it nice for those of us (me) that are lazy.

I am hoping maybe the CIH kits will come down in pricing with time. Those things are expensive.

**Sonnie** · **01-28-09, 12:16 PM**

The Mitsubishi HC6500 seems like it would work well with an anamorphic lens.

Quote:

The HC6500 has Mitsubishi's dual anamorphic modes, which allow the user to forego the articulated track usually paired with an anamorphic lens. Instead, the HC6500 scales all content for proper display through an anamorphic lens, and the lens remains deployed at all times.

Am I understanding this correctly? I can buy an anamorphic lens and permanently install the lens. From there I simply watch any aspect ratio I want without having to do anything to the projector?

What am I missing? This seems like it would be the ticket here.

**Mark Techer** · **01-28-09, 01:40 PM**

Correct. There are two basic modes you need to do this -Vertical Stretch and Horizontal Squeeze. Then you can watch both 1.78:1 and 2.37:1 with the lens in place and switch ARs with the remote of the projector...

Mark

**Sonnie** · **01-28-09, 02:15 PM**

With all of the projectors I have owned... I didn't have to switch AR with the remote... it was automatic. Would this be something different, or are you familiar with this projector?

**Sonnie** · **01-28-09, 02:23 PM**

I know I am full of questions, but this has my interest indeed.

Are you familiar with Home Theater Brothers lens that is $610 shipped?

What do they mean by: Best results are achieved with throw ratios above 1.7?

Thanks for all the help!

**Prof.** · **01-28-09, 05:48 PM**

The HTB lens is the one I suggested at $600.00..
By all accounts, It's quite a good lens...

The TR they mentioned is the recommended minimum TR to keep pincushion to a minimum..
You can have a slightly lower TR and still be able to use the lens, but you will have a little bit more pincushion effect..

**Sonnie** · **01-28-09, 06:41 PM**

What is 1.7 in relation to though?

Projector needs to be mounted 1.7 times the width of image?

120" width... projector needs to be mounted at least 17' from screen?

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