Do I need a BFD?

**Danothemano** · **02-09-09, 05:50 PM**

I've taken some measurements and I have some pretty nasty dips and peaks. The big peak is about 10dB more than the curve. I was pondering whether I should get a BFD so I can try and smooth some of these things out. I've tried moving the subwoofer around, but that only made the peak worse.

I've been a little disappointed with the low bass from my sonosub, but I think that is because I am turning it the level down so the 40-60hz range wasn't so boomy and loud. So what do y'all think?

**brucek** · **02-09-09, 07:08 PM**

Quote:

because I am turning it the level down so the 40-60hz range wasn't so boomy and loud

Yep, that's exactly what you're doing.

You do need to address the peak from 35-55Hz.

brucek

**Danothemano** · **02-09-09, 07:29 PM**

So with the BFD I've read I could connect it to my E-MU 0404 with MIDI and just send the filter corrections straight to the BFD and that's it? I don't need to have the midi cable connected after I send it over?

**brucek** · **02-09-09, 07:34 PM**

Yeah, you can send the filters with a midi cable (or enter them manually).

The midi cable is only for loading the filters - that's it.

brucek

**Danothemano** · **02-09-09, 08:33 PM**

Anywhere I can get a BFD1124 cheaper than $100? Hopefully this is the last thing I have to buy for a while. This is a pretty expensive hobby, but worth it.

**brucek** · **02-09-09, 09:18 PM**

e-bay............

**Otto** · **02-09-09, 11:48 PM**

Right here, sir. Let's go $75 shipped...

**Danothemano** · **02-10-09, 04:19 PM**

I don't need a MIDI to USB right? Just a straight up MIDI to MIDI cable?

**Otto** · **02-10-09, 06:40 PM**

Quote:

Danothemano wrote:

I don't need a MIDI to USB right? Just a straight up MIDI to MIDI cable?

Depends. You don't actually need the MIDI cable at all, if you don't mind entering the filter values by hand. It's not that hard, but the MIDI connection does streamline things a bit. Still, the BFD will be 100% functional for EQing your sub with or without the MIDI connection.

If your PC (it was on my sound card as a game port or something) has a MIDI output, you'll need a MIDI cable with the MIDI connectors on one end and the game port thing on the other end. I'm not sure if there's a common PC output that would just take a MIDI to MIDI cable. I admit that I'm not terribly familiar with MIDI.

If your PC doesn't have any type of MIDI output, then the easiest way is to just get the USB to MIDI cable.

**brucek** · **02-10-09, 07:21 PM**

Quote:

E-MU 0404 with MIDI

Since you have a soundcard with a midi, then you need a midi to midi.

brucek

**Danothemano** · **02-10-09, 07:26 PM**

And how would I transfer all of the settings over? Also, how does this look compared to my old graph. These are the settings I would likely apply.

**brucek** · **02-10-09, 07:39 PM**

Quote:

And how would I transfer all of the settings over?

Read and become familiar with the REW HELP files.

Here is the page to read.

brucek

**Danothemano** · **02-16-09, 07:46 PM**

Got my BFD setup today. Wow. I really cannot thank you guys enough. I sent my filters across with an MIDI cable without a hitch. First movie I had to plop in was Black Hawk down. I went straight to the "Irene" scene. I could literally feel the helicopter as it was taking off. Before, I could barely feel it at all. The people in the other room said that the ceiling fan was vibrating.

I really cannot wait to watch other movies and re-watch some with the BFD installed. I have no idea why I didn't do it sooner.

**Eric D** · **02-16-09, 08:48 PM**

This thread should almost be a clinical study - your first graph was so good and the measurement showed such a clear hump that would be easy to treat that even I knew how much you were going to love the results.

Happy for you! I still remember when I first eq'd a sub and got rid of a hump like that. Doing eq right is as good as getting the sub in the first place, isn't it.

enjoy!

**jschaefer7406** · **02-16-09, 09:27 PM**

Hello all,

I have the same problem (needing to lower the overall sub volume to avoid "boominess"). I am hoping to have that deep bass back into my music and movies as well. Received the BFD today, now just waiting on the MIDI cable...

Joe

**joz** · **02-18-09, 02:13 AM**

Getting back to the OP.
Do you need BFD??

Ummm,yes you do..at least something that does EQ.
I'm sure atm your bass may sound a bit FAT and slow.
With eq although it may sound leaner it'll be more accurate.
By that you should hear is the individual bass notes rather then the usual boom boom!
What the EQ wil do is reduce the doubling up of certain bass frequencies (floor bounce)
that bloats the sound..

Don't worry you're not alone here,most systems need some EQ ( they just don't know it yet)!

PS still an EQ newbie here, finding his way!

**Danothemano** · **02-18-09, 04:23 PM**

Quote:

joz wrote:

Getting back to the OP.
Do you need BFD??

Ummm,yes you do..at least something that does EQ.
I'm sure atm your bass may sound a bit FAT and slow.
With eq although it may sound leaner it'll be more accurate.
By that you should hear is the individual bass notes rather then the usual boom boom!
What the EQ wil do is reduce the doubling up of certain bass frequencies (floor bounce)
that bloats the sound..

Don't worry you're not alone here,most systems need some EQ ( they just don't know it yet)!

PS still an EQ newbie here, finding his way!

I already bought one and posted about it above. It is really amazing what just a simple EQ can do.

**Eric D** · **02-19-09, 01:33 PM**

And just to pile on to the OPs response, see just above where his words were: "I have no idea why I didn't do it sooner."

For those of you thinking about it, ask around for someone near you who's done it, and ask for a demonstration of what the difference is like. IMO it can be as much difference as getting the sub in the first place. And also IMO it's far better to get an adequate sub and eq it than it is to get a great sub that doesnt' respond well in the room.

I used to do figure out the adjustments using frequency sweeps from Avia. Had to watch the SPL meter and try to track the SPL to the frequency on the screen in real time - it usually took several runs to try to get close to the peak level and the frequency, much less the width. Long, slow and boring. Then after attempting an adjustment, repeat that whole process.

But I had Wow! moments of bass clarity even with that technique that made it all worthwhile.

Using REW and getting good accurate visual data has made it MUCH easier even if I had to do my own ciphering and then remeasure. But also being able to let the program figure out placement of the filters, and/or simulating my own, and having it show a visual prediction the results, so that all I have to do is match the settings on my PEQ.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Hope Dano doesn't mind me jumping on his bandwagon.

enjoy!

**Danothemano** · **02-19-09, 04:35 PM**

Not at all. What movie should I try next? Cloverfield?

**salvasol** · **02-19-09, 06:27 PM**

Quote:

Danothemano wrote:

Not at all. What movie should I try next? Cloverfield?

War of the World
Transformers
U-571
Master and Commander
King Kong

Just to start...

You can also read question #9 .... here

**bcharlow** · **02-27-09, 09:10 AM**

You will really find the BFD useful and you'll love the results.

I found mine for under $60 delivered by bidding on eBay. They come up frequently, so set a search filter to alert you.

Frankly, this is the best money I've spent in years on my stereo! I cannot believe how well a simple EQ unit for sub (only for sub, not for mains) can make the sub integrate properly in a difficult room.

Try it and be amazed at the results.

FYI, I use mine only for music, strictly a 2 channel guy. If you're after HT use for BOOM BOOM in movies, I'm not sure EQing a sub is really very important.

**Rambo4** · **02-27-09, 09:30 AM**

Would it be preferrable to go with just the Audyssey EQ with a receiver, like say a Denon 2808CI, first and then introduce the BFD? Or would that be a case of too many cooks?

**Eric D** · **02-27-09, 09:53 AM**

Quote:

bcharlow wrote:

.... If you're after HT use for BOOM BOOM in movies, I'm not sure EQing a sub is really very important.

Oh yeah it is! Without it, all you often hear is the typical 40-70 Hz freq hump from the walls and floor/ceiling. You can get it nice and loud, and you would be probably happy if you didn't know what you were missing. But once you get a nice clean low effect that is so visceral, there's no going back!

It does help bring peace to my house, as I don't have to turn up the movie so loud to get some impressive BOOMs.

P.S. I also love what eq'ing does for music.

**Eric D** · **02-27-09, 10:00 AM**

Quote:

Rambo4 wrote:

Would it be preferrable to go with just the Audyssey EQ with a receiver, like say a Denon 2808CI, first and then introduce the BFD? Or would that be a case of too many cooks?

I haven't done it (older receiver still), but from what I understand it is a great idea to do both. I don't remember the order in which you want to do them though - that info should be around here somewhere.

**Rambo4** · **02-27-09, 10:05 AM**

Thanks Eric, I'll check a few more threads. It is likely best to do both, the less is more philosophy is encouraged in the Two channel audio world for music in my experience, but dealing with deep bass down to 20Hz and room resonance goes out of that realm and worth experimenting.

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