Is a Behringer DCX2496 any good for HT

I can get a DCX for a steal is this better than a DSP1124 or a FBQ2496 ?
I have a DSP1124P

[brucek]

I can get a DCX for a steal is this better than a DSP1124 or a FBQ2496 ?

It's not in the same class as the other two. The DCX is a speaker crossover management system...

brucek

dang, that's what I thought ....
thanks

But I may still get it for a P/A

[Ilkka]

brucek wrote:

It's not in the same class as the other two. The DCX is a speaker crossover management system...

brucek

You're right, it's way above those two. I believe many don't realize how versatile unit it is. The only thing where it stays behind those two is the minimum width of the filter, Q=10. Not a bad flaw though, one shouldn't use any sharper filters than that anyways.

how many channels does have for a para. Eq, I cannot find anything in the manual, other than it is Para. Eq

[Otto]

Ilkka wrote:

You're right, it's way above those two. I believe many don't realize how versatile unit it is. The only thing where it stays behind those two is the minimum width of the filter, Q=10. Not a bad flaw though, one shouldn't use any sharper filters than that anyways.

Hi Ilkka, doreytp,

What are the benefits of the DCX2496 compared to the DEQ2496 compared to the BFD1124. I'm thinking of moving away from the 1124 as described here.

I also looked at the DCX2496. I like its low pass filter at a 24 dB per octave slope; I think the DEQ2496 shelf filters are at 12 dB, but I think you can add the GEQ to that.

I browsed the DCX manual, and I didn't find good information on the PEQ either. It almost looked like there's only one, but that doesn't quite make sense. For whatever reason, Acrobat didn't want to search nicely today; I couldn't "find" anything in the document, even words that I can see on the screen in front of me (I searched up as well down, and allowed it to "wrap" when I got back to the top of the page.

[Hakka]

After a quick look at the specs of the DCX2496 it looks like a very interesting piece of gear. I've just downloaded all the user manuals for all the behringer eqs and crossovers, its a stack about 2 inches thick, looks like I've got some reading to do.

I haven't bought a new piece of gear for about six months, I'm long overdue for a new toy.

Hakka.

[Hakka]

I've read some of the DCX2496 manual and it keeps mentioning a 'dynamic eq', can someone tell me what this is and how is it different to the parametric eq?

I've been planning to go to an active biamp setup for a while now and I'm gonna buy the DCX in the next few weeks. I still need to get some more amps and either mod my speakers or build new ones, so the active setup is not happening anytime soon. In the meantime I might use this as an eq for my mains, there are some nasty bass humps I can't get rid of, how effective would the unit be in this application?

Hakka.

[Otto]

Hakka wrote:

I've read some of the DCX2496 manual and it keeps mentioning a 'dynamic eq', can someone tell me what this is and how is it different to the parametric eq?

The dynamic EQ can apply a varying curve based on input levels. Somewhat like a variable loudness control. For example, you could set it up to boost the low range little when you are listening quietly, but reduce the low range a little as things get louder, such that you have a "reasonable" level of bass at all listening levels.

Implementing it properly would require that we measure the frequency range of interest over a variety of levels, then determing how much gain or cut would be necessary at each level. I've not seen much discussion of this around here, but it would be a fun thing to start working on.

I originally was looking to buy one for my P/A system, where I can take my signal feed and send it to this unit. It is buy all means as posted above a bass management system, with extra's. I like extra's, I wish the DSP1124 has a front like the DEQ2496 .

But it seems to have a lot of other goodies, but it mentions a PEQ , but nowhere can I find how many channels. Maybe one PEQ per channel I know it takes a left right channel and you can set X_Overs for Bass, Mid and Highs. Then send the three channels to the individual speakers. Which is awsome, but I wouldn't really want to send it back to my highs and mids, as I think you would get to mush noise.

[Ilkka]

doreytp wrote:

how many channels does have for a para. Eq, I cannot find anything in the manual, other than it is Para. Eq

It has 9 parametric filters (regular band pass or shelf 6dB/12dB) per each input/output (it has 3 inputs (plus SUM input) and 6 outputs). Plenty enough. Currently I run my whole front-end (LCR) and subwoofer through it.

I'd suggest to DL the remote software. That will make you realize how capable this unit really is. It will run even without the unit.

http://www.behringer.com/DCX2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG (->software updates)

[fireanimal]

Ilkka wrote:

It has 9 parametric filters (regular band pass or shelf 6dB/12dB) per each input/output (it has 3 inputs (plus SUM input) and 6 outputs). Plenty enough. Currently I run my whole front-end (LCR) and subwoofer through it.

I'd suggest to DL the remote software. That will make you realize how capable this unit really is. It will run even without the unit.

http://www.behringer.com/DCX2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG (->software updates)

How do you use this with your sub. Do you let it do the crossovers instead of your reciever. Do you set your reciever to Large speakers, No subs, them sum the three inputs?

Thanks.

[mojave]

I have had a DCX2496 for about three months and really like it. I purchased it because it is not only a parametric equalizer, but it also has 6 outputs, is a digital crossover, and can be controlled by the computer with the downloadable software and a cheap serial cable. You can also buy a bluetooth to serial device and not even use a cable to your computer! The DCX2496 will also auto-align multitple subwoofers (using an ECM8000 microphone).

I send it a digital 96 kHz signal from my X-Fi Elite soundcard via the spdif output. The X-Fi performs digital volume attentuation and then sends the signal out through both the analog and digital outputs. The analog outputs go directly to my 7 channel amplifier. The digital output goes to the DCX2496 via input A.

Like Ilkka said, it has 9 parametric bands for each input and output. For bass management purposes, this gives you a total of 18 bands of parametric equalization which is more than enough.

I send input A to output A for my subwoofer with the high pass crossover off and the low pass crossover set to 50 Hz. I also send input A to output B for my HSU MBM-12 mid bass module with a high pass crossover at 50 Hz and a low pass crossover of 121 Hz. The crossover in the X-Fi for my analog output is also 121 Hz. Finally, I send input A to output C for my Buttkicker amplifier using a low pass crossover of 50 Hz.

The phase and delay is also adjustable for each output. In addition, the DCX2496 will perform auto-alignment which adjusts the delay of the outputs so that the subwoofer and mid-bass module are aligned. I tested repeatedly and received results within a few inches. The results were very close to the actual distance between the two units. Since my subwoofer is right next to my right front main, it does not need any delay.

I had never used a paramentric equalizer and found the DCX2496 very easy to use and setup. Once you have it connected to your computer, you don't even have to touch the unit again (I leave it on all the time). You can store 60 presets internally and on a pcmcia card. You can also store the presets on your computer in case you need to reset the DCX2496. Again, you can easily switch presets using the computer for comparing settings, house curves, etc., crossovers (12-48dB/octave), etc.

Here are some links of interest:

Behringer DCX2496 webpage
Behringer Specifications
Remote Software You can download and use to get a feel for the DCX2496 with have the DCX2496 present.
Website devoted to DCX2496

[Ilkka]

fireanimal wrote:

How do you use this with your sub. Do you let it do the crossovers instead of your reciever. Do you set your reciever to Large speakers, No subs, them sum the three inputs?

Thanks.

Large speakers, no sub on receiver. DCX2496 handles crossovers, delays, EQ etc.

A input = left main (from receiver, pre out)
B input = right main (from receiver, pre out)
C input = center channel (from receiver, pre out)

1 output = left main (to separate power amp)
2 output = right main (to separate power amp)
3 output = center channel (to receiver, main in)
4-6 outputs = 1-3 subwoofers

[Bob in St. Louis]

Ohhh, I love this thread!
Rencently a Hawthorne forum member was kind enough to loan me his DEQ2496 and DCX2496 to see if they'd "fit my bill". I've got a 5.1 HT rig currently using two sub channels. So technically it's a 5.2 I suppose.
I've installed the DEQ first and have it running. I didn't want too many buttons in the mix, I figured I'd wait until I was comfortable with the DEQ before I installed the DCX.

I've got a few questions so far.

mojave wrote:

can be controlled by the computer with the downloadable software and a cheap serial cable.

This I want to do. I decided I want to put the PC in the rack with the rest of the equipment to shorten the RS-232 cable and the Cat-6 LAN cable to the XBox 360 MCE. A few other reasons as well that don't really matter here.

The analog outputs go directly to my 7 channel amplifier. The digital output goes to the DCX2496 via input A.

A couple questions here:
#1, When you say 7 channel amp, are you refering to a digital receiver, dedicated surround processor, or just an amp with 7 channels?
#2 What's the purpose of outputting analog and digital of the same signal going to two different places? Is this so one of the pieces of equipment can pick up the rear channels.
#3 Are your XLR cables balanced or unbalanced. (and is unbalanced OK for HT?)
#4 Is the soundcards analog outputs seven descrete channels/cables? in addition to optical?

I send input A to output A for my subwoofer with the high pass crossover off and the low pass crossover set to 50 Hz. I also send input A to output B for my HSU MBM-12 mid bass module with a high pass crossover at 50 Hz and a low pass crossover of 121 Hz. The crossover in the X-Fi for my analog output is also 121 Hz. Finally, I send input A to output C for my Buttkicker amplifier using a low pass crossover of 50 Hz.

I think all of this sank in. I've got Aura brand transducers in my seating as well, and would like them to have their own XO point also, but not at the cost of loosing LCR/sub function/control.

I such a virgin with equipment like this.

I'm currently only using optical in and out of the unit from a DVD player through the DEQ to the receiver. 2 channel music works fine, sounds great. However, when I put a DVD in, the input LED's are almost pegged and I get ZERO sound?!
Very interested in the PC integration too.

Thanks for the links!

Bob

[Ricci]

It seems like the consensus is that the DCX2496 is better overall for sub use than the FBQ's. This is what I wanted to know.
How does it compare to the DEQ2496? Do any of these units have EQ below 20hz? I'm trying to avoid getting a Rane PE-17.

[mojave]

Bob in St. Louis wrote:

A couple questions here:
#1, When you say 7 channel amp, are you refering to a digital receiver, dedicated surround processor, or just an amp with 7 channels?

I have an amp with 7 channels. It is an Outlaw Audio 7100. I only have a computer and amplifier. My computer is the source for HDTV, DVD-Audio (I have to use analog out to the DCX2496 for this), DVD's, CD's, and ripped music. My X-Fi Elite soundcard does all the decoding.

#2 What's the purpose of outputting analog and digital of the same signal going to two different places? Is this so one of the pieces of equipment can pick up the rear channels.

When you output from a 7.1 soundcard or a 7.1 receiver, you use analog front left and right, center, side left and right, rear left and right, and subwoofer outputs. Most people that do digital room correction use the analog subwoofer output and feed it to their equilizer. It is coverted from digital to analog to leave the soundcard/receiver, from analog to digital in the equalizer, and from digital to analog again to leave the equalizer and go to the sub(s).

My soundcard takes all channels and combines them into a digital stereo PCM signal for output via spdif. Because this output is simultaneous with the analog output, I can send it to the DCX2496. This has several benefits: it bypasses the bass management of the soundcard so the bass isn't changed, it sends all frequencies from all channels (subwoofer, LFE, bass in mains, etc) so that I can perform the bass managment that I want, it elimates an analog to digital and digital to analog conversion step, it eliminates problems with an analog signal that isn't attentuated enough by the soundcard.

#3 Are your XLR cables balanced or unbalanced. (and is unbalanced OK for HT?)

Since my cables are XLR to RCA, they are unbalanced. Unbalanced is fine for HT since most people use RCA cables anyway. I use Hosa Technology, Inc. cables.

#4 Is the soundcards analog outputs seven descrete channels/cables? in addition to optical?

It outputs 8 discrete channels with three cables in addition to the optical cable(I use a 3.5mm stereo to XLR cable for optical).

I'm currently only using optical in and out of the unit from a DVD player through the DEQ to the receiver. 2 channel music works fine, sounds great. However, when I put a DVD in, the input LED's are almost pegged and I get ZERO sound?!

The DEQ or DCX only accept a digital stereo PCM signal. A DVD sends either a Dolby Digital or DTS signal (you can select the stereo PCM signal, though). DD and DTS require a decoder. For this reason, you are not able to send the DD and DTS signal to the DEQ or DCX. You have to decode with your computer/soundcard or a receiver and then send the analog subwoofer signal to the equalizer.

Ricci wrote:

How does it compare to the DEQ2496? Do any of these units have EQ below 20hz?

The two are similar in quality, but the DCX2496 has more features: digital crossovers, controllable via RS232 and computer, high shelf and low shelf filters (I don't think the DEQ2496 has these), auto alignment for delay and phase control, phase control, simple interface, six outputs, bios upgradable via a computer, and you can store presets on a card or the computer besides just the device.

I recently submitted a question to Behringer about the 20Hz limit on their equalizers. They said that is as low as it can go due to the hardware. They cannot make a bios revision to provide a lower limit. I'm still not sure if a filter that is set to 20Hz will effect signals below that or not. I need to do some more testing, but haven't had time.

[Ilkka]

mojave wrote:

high shelf and low shelf filters (I don't think the DEQ2496 has these)

It has.

I recently submitted a question to Behringer about the 20Hz limit on their equalizers. They said that is as low as it can go due to the hardware. They cannot make a bios revision to provide a lower limit. I'm still not sure if a filter that is set to 20Hz will effect signals below that or not. I need to do some more testing, but haven't had time.

It will affect signals below 20 Hz. I can show you some measurements if you like.

[mojave]

Ilkka wrote:

It will affect signals below 20 Hz. I can show you some measurements if you like.

I thought it probably would. It seems like a filter at 20 Hz would be sufficient for most purposes. I would like to see a few measurements if you have them readily avalable. It might help some not worry as much about having a filter set lower than 20 Hz. Thanks.

[Chrisbee]

Duplicating 20Hz filters on the BFD will give you boost down to around 10Hz.

With my 4 x 15" IB I seem to get a true boost in output to match a single boost setting of the filter pair.

This duplication (or ganging if you prefer) is more than twice as powerful than using a +16dB filter at 20Hz so be very careful with high listening levels. You won't hear anything until your toasted driver cone flops onto the floor!

I am using 2 identical filters @ 20Hz +8dB 120/60 BFD filters instead of a single +16dB @ 20 Hz. So I get an 8dB boost at the bottom end. (Thanks to ThomasW of the IB Cult for this clever idea)

Be very careful indeed with 20Hz boost filters! Most subs probably can't handle much. I increased my duplicate filters 1dB at a time testing continuously for cone excursion right down to 6Hz with REW. Just to ensure I wouldn't blow my drivers apart.

Be warned: It is not just a matter of whacking in a double 20Hz boost filter then trying WOTW at reference level!

I have just been trying sinewaves at fairly high SPLs down to 6Hz to see if there was any real benefit.

I can assure you that such low frequencies are completely silent even if you can feel the pressure in the room as you read 100dB(C) on your Galaxy 140 SPL meter. These very low frequencies also made my hair vibrate as I approached the manifold. It felt like pulsing static.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Mojave - Thank you very much for the reply. Very good information. I checked out the website for the sound card you have, which one of the X-Fi Elite cards do you have?

I find myself at an impass regarding my system. I'm not sure which way to go, what I need to buy, etc.... Like I mentioned earlier, I've got the DEQ/DCX, I MAY have enough amps for what I want to do. Not sure, it depends on how the pieces of the chain are assembled.
The DCX manual says you need two units to run a 5.1 rig. I'm not interested in EQing the rears. They'll be more than capable of running full range.
I should probably start my own thread......With everything I've got going on, and changes I want to make with the system, I could easily take this thread off topic which wouldn't be fair.

Bob -

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Chrisbee wrote:

Duplicating 20Hz filters on the BFD will give you boost down to around 10Hz.

I am using 2 identical filters @ 20Hz +8dB 120/60 BFD filters instead of a single +16dB @ 20 Hz. So I get an 8dB boost at the bottom end. (Thanks to ThomasW of the IB Cult for this clever idea)

Not getting how this can be. I modeled response in REW and got an improvement of maybe 1 dB @ 10 Hz with dual 8 dB filters vs. a single 16 dB filter.

Regards,
Wayne

[Chrisbee]

Hi Wayne

I found that a single +16dB boost @ 20Hz didn't have the same effect at all.

Here's an "all measured" of my double boost filters.



This means I'll just have to fire up REW again and graph the result of a +16dB boost @ 20Hz. I cannot tell from my hundreds of saved REW graphs which refers to my manifold, the Galaxy 140 SPL meter and +16dB combined. Most of my graphs relate to the array and RS meters. I went over to double filters while still using the array.

BTW: It was Tom Nousaine's idea to use double (or ganged) filters to move the EQ reach beyond the usual 20Hz limit. So you had better take it up with him.

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Hmm interesting... I can’t see how it would work any different, as long as the bandwidth of the single was the same as the duals. And if they weren’t you could probably tweak the bandwidth of the single filter to duplicate the duals.

What makes the filter reach so far below 20 Hz is the wide bandwidth setting, not the stacking. For instance, you could get even more boost at 10 Hz, and less of a hump at 20 Hz (as shown in my graphs of the electronic response) by opening up the filter even wider, to 3 or even 4 octaves.

Of course, possible differences in phase changes between using the duals vs. the single could account for some room-measured differences, but that’s a pretty murky issue that’s difficult to predict.

In your case you got what you were after, an overall flatter response curve between 10-40 Hz.

Be interested to see your other graph when you have the time to do it.

Regards,
Wayne

[Chrisbee]

Hi Wayne

Read it and weep!

No description necessary? But for those who haven't been following this thread:

The purple trace is 2 x +8dB @ 20Hz and the green 1 x +16dB @ 20Hz. Both 120/60 BW. (Maximum width and lowest frequency for BFD filters)