My first session with my new FBQ2496 - Results inside...

[RazorX]

Well, I received my FBQ2496 today and thought I would take an hour or two to play with it...yeah right. I have been playing with, err um, working with it for the last four hours and I'm sure I could still tweak it a bit more.

Here is a graph generated at the beginning to use as a baseline.


Here is the same setup with the filters applied


Here are the waterfalls for each

No filters


With filters


And decay, in the same order



Here are the filters I applied


I'm thinking everything is looking better and not too bad for my first pass and about 45 minutes of work but wait...

...Here's what happened when I added the mains to the mix.


Not looking as good now. Hmm. So I tried all the tips I have read on here; adjust the phase on both subs (individually and together in every possible combination), and adjusting the distance settings. All I got from this ~2 hours of work was an even worse looking graph. I just moved the dips and peaks around.

So I started over with a single sub on (the one in the right rear corner).

Here is the starting point




And here is what I ended up with using a house curve also applied (30 8, 80 0).




And here are the filters I applied


I did some quick tests of the system after I finished up with this last round of adjustments. Here's what I demoed for the listening tests.

• Dire Straights - Brothers in Arms SACD - it was in the drive when I cut over the the DVD player so i went with it...
• The pod racer scene in Star Wars Episode I
• The scene where the two small yellow ships and one big "chrome" ship is coming in to land on the planet
• A few THX trailers (Tex, Tex2, and Cavalcade)
• The scene in ICE AGE where the squirrel causes the glacier to crack with the acorn
• U-571 depth charge scene - This really came alive and may have been the most obvious improvement of all the clips I watched/listened to. I wouldn't say it hit the hardest compared with the others but it was a night and day difference.
• 1st navel battle in Master and Commander
• Darla pecking the aquarium glass in Nemo
• LOTR opening battle scene - this is where my testing ended because my wife came in and said I was waking everyone up...

My initial impression of this setup is WOW! The bass seems to integrate much better with the rest of the speakers (more seamless) and seems to hit much harder. I can't imagine what it would be like with a little more extension. Surprisingly, at least to me, was how much better the surrounds came alive with the filters applied.

I am already glad I found REW, this forum and bought a BFD. I am sure it is only going to get better not to mention I have a new sub coming soon. It will be interesting to see what the new single 15" sub (Elemental Designs A5 - 350) sounds like compared to my two 10" subs (Paradigm PW-2100).

I'm going to bed in a few minutes but I will continue to mess around with it tomorrow after work. Your thoughts and suggestions are welcome of course. I would really like to get it smoothed out with both subs and the mains. I'm not sure what I should be doing to get rid of the dip from ~50Hz - ~100Hz when I add the mains (graph 7). I'm thinking my time could have been better spent just continuing to work on getting that dip worked out with both subs. I'm definitely getting deeper extension in that configuration.

[Blaser]

RazorX wrote:

Well, I received my FBQ2496 today

Congratulations!

The bass seems to integrate much better with the rest of the speakers (more seamless) and seems to hit much harder. I can't imagine what it would be like with a little more extension. Surprisingly, at least to me, was how much better the surrounds came alive with the filters applied.

Yeah...great! your bass will be now more defined and you will be closer to hearing equal loudness notes, less boominess at 30-35 Hz that was tamed.

I am already glad I found REW, this forum and bought a BFD. I am sure it is only going to get better not to mention I have a new sub coming soon. It will be interesting to see what the new single 15" sub (Elemental Designs A5 - 350) sounds like compared to my two 10" subs (Paradigm PW-2100).

You want better? I would upgrade with 2 15"ers or even 18" from dual 10". A single 15 wouldn't do that much of a difference (but that's my opinion).

[brucek]

A single 15 wouldn't do that much of a difference

Mmmm, I don't know if I agree. The extension of a 15" is much better than a 10". The extra 10" sub only offers more headroom, not extension...

brucek

[Blaser]

Yes you are correct Brucek, but generally when spending money on new subs, I would seek higher quality and also higher SPL levels (as an upgrade). If this is the case, I think a single 15" driver won't be too much of an improvment (SPLwise).

[RazorX]

blaser wrote:

Yes you are correct Brucek, but generally when spending money on new subs, I would seek higher quality and also higher SPL levels (as an upgrade). If this is the case, I think a single 15" driver won't be too much of an improvment (SPLwise).

Really? Because the reason I decided to replace my two 10's with a single 15" is to achieve both more extension and more "punch". I'm assuming you are equating a higher SPL to more of punch (slam in the chest, etc.). I'm understanding you correctly?

Based on what I have listened to it seems like a good 15" sub does provide more of that intense hit you in the chest slam than one or two 10" subs of ~equal quality are capable of. Is this correct?

Shouldn't I expect the new sub to accomplish these two goals?

I'm not really debating this topic. My questions are more along the lines of asking for input on the topic. I'm a little concerned now that I will not be getting the results I had hoped to achieve with this change in subs.

[brucek]

I'm a little concerned now that I will not be getting the results I had hoped to achieve with this change in subs.

I believe you will.

brucek

[Blaser]

RazorX wrote:

Really? Because the reason I decided to replace my two 10's with a single 15" is to achieve both more extension and more "punch". I'm assuming you are equating a higher SPL to more of punch (slam in the chest, etc.). I'm understanding you correctly?

Based on what I have listened to it seems like a good 15" sub does provide more of that intense hit you in the chest slam than one or two 10" subs of ~equal quality are capable of. Is this correct?

Shouldn't I expect the new sub to accomplish these two goals?

I'm not really debating this topic. My questions are more along the lines of asking for input on the topic. I'm a little concerned now that I will not be getting the results I had hoped to achieve with this change in subs.

There are many parameters to a sub than just its size. Upgrading from 2 * 10" subs to a single 15" is an upgrade, assuming all parameters are equal. I just mean that if you are looking for the WOW effect, 2 * 15" will do it easier than a single 15. Do not forget that to have a bit more extention, tune will be lower, and max SPL will also be lower (tradeoff).
If you look for more punch (midbass), so you need more SPL, a 15" will have more puch, two will rock!

[RazorX]

brucek wrote:

I believe you will.

brucek

blaser wrote:

There are many parameters to a sub than just its size. Upgrading from 2 * 10" subs to a single 15" is an upgrade, assuming all parameters are equal. I just mean that if you are looking for the WOW effect, 2 * 15" will do it easier than a single 15. Do not forget that to have a bit more extention, tune will be lower, and max SPL will also be lower (tradeoff).
If you look for more punch (midbass), so you need more SPL, a 15" will have more puch, two will rock!

Cool. Thanks guys. This makes me feel better.

I would love to have two of the 15' subs but I really don't have room for a second one in this room. In fact, I have only one location to place the one of them. I guess you could say I am space challenged in this room.

I did a demo for my wife tonight to get her opinion on the sound/feel of the system after adding the EQ. It is an understatement when I say she was pretty skeptical leading up to this demo. She wasn't real keen on the idea of replacing two "perfectly good and working" subs with a new one and she was equally baffled by the purchase of an EQ for subs. Let's just say she had pretty much made her mind up that it was the EQ was a silly purchase and here expectations were pretty low.

I played the same clips I used to test system last night (listed in my first post) except for the SACD but I added a few others for this session. The additional things we watched were:

• The crash scene from Flight of the Phoenix
• The T-Rex escape in Jurassic Park
• The missile/airplane scene in the Incredibles
• The helicopter/chain gun scene in the Matrix
• The scene where Neo talks to the machines in Matrix Revolutions
• A scene from the Haunting
• The laugh induced power surge in Monsters Inc.

I think I'm missing one or two others but this gives you a good idea of what she auditioned the system with. She did notice a difference pretty much immediately but tried to downplay how much so at first. About halfway through the demo she admitted to hearing a big difference and was talking about how big of a difference she was noticing. How she couldn't believe how something like the EQ would have made such a significant improvement. That's when I told her "just think of what it will sound like with the 2nd sub and the ButtKickers added back in". She was shocked at what she was hearing on only one of the subs and without the ButtKickers.

I also listened to a few more clips (Some of the other good bass passages in Monsters Inc. and the scenes from War of the Worlds - the lightening storm and when the walker things come out of the ground and start blasting people) by myself.

I can not stress how blown away I am with the improvement in not only the bass performance but in the overall sound improvement of my system after adding this EQ. I do have things vibrating in the room now that I need to track down and eliminate but I'll tackle that once I stop grinning.

I still want to add the other sub back in and get the system dialed in with both but I think I will enjoy it as is for now and just watch a couple movies this weekend. I may just leave the other sub out of the mix since I should have the new sub by the end of the month anyway. I will be starting all over then anyway.

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

I still want to add the other sub back in and get the system dialed in with both but I think I will enjoy it as is for now and just watch a couple movies this weekend.

Shoot, just stack the second on top of the first, and you’re done!
Nice that your wife was able to tell a difference...

Regards,
Wayne

[RazorX]

Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote:

Shoot, just stack the second on top of the first, and you’re done!
Nice that your wife was able to tell a difference...

Regards,
Wayne

Yeah, I thought about doing that but the (unfiltered) curve looks almost identical between a single sub in that location and both stacked in that location. The primary reason I'm itching to get a good filtered curve with the two subs in opposite corners is to get the benefit of deeper extension.

It is very nice that she notices the difference and is actually liking it. We watched Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer tonight but I played a couple scenes from WoW for her beforehand and she was blown away. The Silver Surfer movie was a bit of a disappointment btw.

Here's what I'm talking about with the difference in the starting points with the subs in the three configurations I described.

The red line is with the two subs in opposite corners, the green line is both subs stacked in the right rear corner, and the red line is a single sub in the same rr corner (the current setup). There are no filters applied to any of these measurements.


BTW, do you guys see anything I should be doing differently with the filters I have applied?

Thanks for all of the input. It is very much appreciated.

[mcallister]

Hey Razor. Where in Ohio are you located?

[RazorX]

I'm in the Columbus area. You?