Do most HT receivers have parametric eq?

[warnerwh]

Being as I don't follow anything about receivers my knowledge is non existant. A few years ago a friend wanted a receiver so I just posted the question.

He ended up with a Yamaha he paid about 800 for I believe. This thing has a parametric equalizer built in. He's not using it and I'm not familiar with it so I wonder if you could use it to tame peaks in the bass region. How many bands do they usually have.

Rather than buy the BFD I'm thinking the 100 bucks maybe should go to a new receiver. The HT receiver we have is a Kenwood with pre outs and super THX or something. I know I paid 450 for it years ago is all. It will drive and has driven a whole array of four ohm speakers so I'm pretty happy with it. I will need pre outs, for what I don't know but like having them.

I also thought I read somewhere that most HT receivers now come with parametric eq.I should add that when it comes to HT it's very secondary to me so I'd not want to spend more than maybe 300 bucks.

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

The parametrics in receivers typically have limited capability compared to a full-bore outboard equalizer, and they probably won’t have numerous filters dedicated to the bass frequencies that you’ll need to EQ a sub.

For any receiver you’re interested in, you can find an on-line manual that will show you the capabilities of the on-board EQ.

Regards,
Wayne

[Josuah]

The EQ that comes with receivers usually is for the speakers, and not the subwoofer. Most receivers do not have parametric EQ, but once you get into the $800 range many of them do. The benefit of 7 or 9 bands of PEQ covering 63Hz to 20kHz is something that many people will argue over.

One thing no will argue about is it's a lot easier to flatten your speaker response by investing in room treatments instead of EQ.

[warnerwh]

Well room treatments like bass traps not only help smooth the frequency response but eliminate modal ringing. And I am convinced the first thing to consider are the room acoustics when putting a system together.

I'm surprised the eq on these receivers doesn't cover the bass frequencies as that's where you're likely to need them the most. Then again most people don't have real subwoofers either.

Thanks guys for the help. I had been pretty set on the 1124p but if a receiver may work then that may be the better route. All the Behringer products I've used have proven to be bargains and being into much higher end audio it wasn't easy to buy something like the EP2500.

[Sonic Icons]

warnerwh wrote:

I'm surprised the eq on these receivers doesn't cover the bass frequencies as that's where you're likely to need them the most. Then again most people don't have real subwoofers either.

Thanks guys for the help. I had been pretty set on the 1124p but if a receiver may work then that may be the better route. All the Behringer products I've used have proven to be bargains and being into much higher end audio it wasn't easy to buy something like the EP2500.

I've been trying to understand the equalization features of the Yamaha receivers by reading their manuals (http://www.yamaha.com/yec/avreceivers.html, free registration required to download manuals). Actually, I recently ordered the Yamaha RX-V2700 on a "close-out special", because my old receiver (Marantz 5500) died; I decided on the RX-V2700 after looking at manuals and reviews for several lines of receivers.

My "bottom line" conclusion (from reading the manuals, not actual use) is that Yamaha has the most advanced parametric equalizer (PEQ) system of the current receiver lines, but none of their products comes close to the capabilities of the BFD for subwoofer EQ. More details for those interested:

In most Yamaha AVRs, the PEQ can only be accessed by running the "auto-magic" YPAO (Yamaha Parametric Room Acoustic Optimizer) program, with no option for user tweaking. A few of the higher-line models do allow user control of the PEQ: these include RX-V3800 (year 2007 model), RX-V2700 (year 2006), RX-V2600 (year 2005). On RX-V2600 and earlier, the lowest filter frequency is 63 Hz, too high for true subwoofer EQ.

On RX-V2700 and RX-V3800, the lowest filter frequency is 32 Hz, which is better but still not quite what bass enthusiasts need. Further, the filter frequency is adjustable only in 1/3 octave steps, i.e. 32 Hz, 40.3 Hz, 50.8 Hz, 64 Hz, ... which isn't fine enough tuning to accurately match a "room mode" peak of arbitrary frequency. The Q factor of each filter is adjustable between 0.5 and 10 (step size for Q factor not specified in text, graph appears to show 13 steps). The gain of each filter is adjustable from +6 dB to -20 dB, in 0.5 dB steps. (One might question whether an EQ with 1/3 octave frequency steps qualifies as a "true" parametric EQ, at any rate I believe this falls far short of the capabilities of the BFD.)

Another limitation of the manual adjustments (on RX-V3800, RX-V2700) is that only two filters are available for the subwoofer output. Seven filters are available for each of the full-range speaker outputs, but only two of the seven filters (for each full-range speaker) may be set below 198.4 Hz. (It might seem that Yamaha is saying "take that, bassheads " with this limitation. I suspect that they chose the "no more than two bass filters per speaker" limit because the automatic YPAO system would get confused if allowed three or more bass filters per speaker, and then kept the same limit for the manual adjustments without really thinking about it. The above is purely speculation on my part.)

Finally, a few comments on other receiver lines: Pioneer Elite models have an equalization system called MCACC (couldn't find in their manuals what that acronym stands for). I looked carefully at the manual for the latest and greatest Pioneer Elite models, the VSX-92TXH and VSX-94TXH. Although I could be misinterpreting, it looks like the MCACC is based on an old-fashioned "graphic equalizer" with fixed-frequency, fixed-Q filters at 63 Hz, 125 Hz, ..., which is not useful for subwoofers.

Several other receiver lines, including Denon, Marantz, and Onkyo, now come with a "third-party" program called Audyssey Multi-Eq or Multi-Eq XT (see http://www.audyssey.com/). I've read that the Audyssey system is based on microphone measurements at several (typically six) locations, rather than a single "listener position", and uses Finite Impulse Response time-domain filters, rather than frequency-domain filters. Also, from what I've read, the versions of Audyssey in the current receiver lines don't include any manual adjustment options.

Any further information on Audyssey or other EQ programs in receivers or preprocessors, and their application to subwoofer / low-bass EQ, is welcome.

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Wow, great info Sonic – thanks!

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

[Josuah]

The Audyssey stuff does both PEQ and time-based analysis to deal with decay and room geometry, and you don't have to use all six mics or all six locations (you can make all six locations the same). The RX-V2700 is an excellent pre-amp and also great on its amp section. But the Audyssey stuff is much better.

[tonyvdb]

I agree with Josuah, The Audyssey system is the best on board EQ system available. Particularly the Audyssey Multeq XT available on the higher end Onkyo and Denon receivers. They take up to 8 listening position samples and I believe 7 frequencies per channel for all 7 channels. and has full bass management including crossover and high pass frequency adjustments.

[tomacco]

Hi: I don't really know, but some of the Revels do, or used to.

Best RegaRDS
Eric G.