Majority of Americans unhappy...

[Richard W. Haines]

OvalNut,

Right on the mark.

[SteveCallas]

What a coincidence, just as we were discussing the fact that the left uses racist and hate speech without blinking an eye and the right gets jumped on for making comments that involve race in any way shape or form, we have this situation with Obama's pastor. Long story short, no self appointed black community representative (Jesse Jackson, Al not-so-Sharpton, multiple other pastors) will reject these comments, and the biased media is giving Obama a huge pass, to the point of almost calling him a hero after his hollow speech, just waiting for this boil over as quickly as possible. You see an intelligent guy like Larry Elders on these talking heads shows calling this hate speech out for what it is and he gets blasted by his own race - same thing happened with Bill Cosby. Some minorities want to marginalize themselves and continue to feel oppressed, as that is the easiest (laziest) way to get free handouts. The left loves playing the victim.

Obama has exposed himself to being caught in at least 3 lies in grand scale this past week, and the media, except for Fox News, is turning a blind eye. Incredible.

Re-examining Michelle Obama's comments from a month or so ago after this pastor ordeal sheds a lot of new light. The Obama's can try and hide their true feelings a little bit longer, but this whole thing is going to collpase on them eventually. Next will be his relationship with the Pentagon bomber, then Black Panthers, and so on and so forth. Classic wolf in sheep's clothing story.

[OvalNut]

Steve,

No surprise that I agree with you completely, yet one thing is worth noting...

Did you happen to see the interview Obama did with Anderson Cooper's 360 show last week as this all erupted? Deer in the headlights doesn't even begin to describe the stammering, conflicting, gaze averting LYING that Obama was doing. Without a script and without a net and without any truth to what he was saying, Obama was exposed.

I'm the first person to hammer the Clinton News Network for their leftist erosion of all things American, but I give big Kudos to Anderson Cooper for the unrelenting high inside chin music fastballs that he kept throwing at Obama. Well done!


Tim

[lcaillo]

I agree with Senator Obama, we should ignore the distractions and pay attention to the issues. When I evaluate his positions on most issues, however, I find him to be an unacceptable candidate for President. Just stick to the "beef," the facts regarding the candidates' positions on meaningful issues. This is sufficient to distinguish them and make a decision without getting into analysis of their "feelings."

[Richard W. Haines]

Good comments by everyone above.

[thxgoon]

I have an update to this thread regarding the issues of health care facing this country.

I spoke with a friend yesterday who I haven't talked to in a few months. She just got out of a bad marriage and made some bad choices during that marriage but is currently doing everything she can to get back on track. She is living with her parents, taking night classes and has a full time job at a hotel. She drives a 10 year old corolla which is paid off and was offered a promotion this week. She is doing all of this to pay off her debt incurred while married and to save some money to get out of her parents house. All in all she is on the up and up and is doing her best to get on her feet by herself and start over.

Turns out that a few weeks ago she went to the doctor with a stomach ache thinking she had the flu. They sent her to the ER where they did an ultrasound and decided she needed emergency surgery to remove her gal bladder. Her current position in her company isn't eligible for health insurance and she decided against the $200/mo premiums to purchase it herself because like many Americans she can't afford it. (I had previously offered her a room in my house for $200 a month so she could get out of her parents house and she declined it because she didn't have it.) Without health insurance the hospital bill came to $15,000. Yes, 15 thousand dollars, for a night in the hospital and use of the ER for a couple of hours and an ultra sound. This amount does not include the doctors' bills. She has yet to be billed for the surgeon, anesthesiologist or the ER doctor who diagnosed her condition. This is a girl that makes $9.00/hr working full time. Lets assume that the total bill is somewhere close to $20K (not unreasonable). That is a full years salary for her after taxes. Her promotion won't pay her much more but ironically it does include benefits, including health insurance. Had she been insured, her insurance company would not have paid anywhere near 15 grand for the surgery as they have agreements with the hospital. Is this fair?

There's a lot of talk from the nay-sayers of organized health care in the states about how a free market economy is the answer and the situation will work itself out. I couldn't disagree more. In a free market something is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. People don't buy it, prices go down. Hospitals can get away with this ridiculous pricing because people will pay it because they have no choice. What is a life worth? If you're laying in a bed looking at death and a doctor tells you he can fix you for your entire life savings plus a second mortgage on your house are you going to say no? This is extortion plain and simple. The system needs some sort of regulation or organization. In my friends choice bankruptcy, which she was trying so hard to avoid, is looking like an option. Then what... the hospital absorbs her costs and adds it to the next patient. Along with all of the costs of all of the illegal immigrants and the 47 million other American citizens who can't afford health insurance.

So what is the solution to this problem. It has been said here that the solution is to elect a republican to keep the country from becoming socialist and then pressure the elected officials into action. Baloney. I have a hard enough time convincing 10 citizens belonging to a board for home theater enthusiasts that this is a problem. How the am I going to inflict any pressure on an official who couldn't care less and already has his mind made up that they current system is fine. This is why I'm voting democratic in the upcoming election. Something has to be done and short of picking up an XL1 and developing some sort of credibility so that I can release a 'sicko' movie without it being instantly tossed because it was made by Michael Moore, voting Democratic is the most powerful weapon in my arsenal to affect change on what I think is one of the most important issues in our country today.

[lcaillo]

It may not seem fair, but she did have the option to have insurance. At $200 per month that $20k could pay for premiums for 9 years. This is why we have insurance. She made another bad choice. Now she needs to keep doing what she is doing and do what it takes to increase her earning power while continuing to keep her expenses down. Many of us have been in similar situations. It does not seem fair at the time, but you do what you have to do.

I do not see the correlation between solving her problem and voting Democrat. The solutions and promises that they suggest are far from realistic and will do little to reduce the cost of health care and insurance. More wealth redistribution, little that will solve any problems.

[Sonnie]

I doubt very seriously either candidate will do anything at all about our current health insurance issues. That is really the last thing on their mind when it comes down to the bottom line.

I am not crazy about any of our candidates, but if we want more serious problems than we have right now... all we need to do is vote democratic.

Had she been insured, her insurance company would not have paid anywhere near 15 grand for the surgery as they have agreements with the hospital. Is this fair?

Had she been insured through BCBS, most likely she would have paid a $300 co-pay like I did and whatever BCBS pays would be all the hospital gets.

She most likely will never pay that bill... obviously she cannot afford it anyway. Most hospitals write it off. If they do go after the patient, the patient usually files bankruptcy.

No doubt it is a mess and we could speculate for a decade on what would really and truly fix it... but it matter not whether it is a democrat or republican at this juncture.

[thxgoon]

lcaillo wrote:

It may not seem fair, but she did have the option to have insurance. At $200 per month that $20k could pay for premiums for 9 years. This is why we have insurance. She made another bad choice. Now she needs to keep doing what she is doing and do what it takes to increase her earning power while continuing to keep her expenses down. Many of us have been in similar situations. It does not seem fair at the time, but you do what you have to do.

I do not see the correlation between solving her problem and voting Democrat. The solutions and promises that they suggest are far from realistic and will do little to reduce the cost of health care and insurance. More wealth redistribution, little that will solve any problems.

While I agree with what you say I think you are missing the point. It should not have cost her $15 thousand dollars and it would not have if we had a better health care system. As for voting D or R, McCain's take on health care speaks of tax credits and adding clinics... If he had it as a top priority and had a decent plan I would honestly consider him as the next president.

I suggest everyone who can take 20 minutes read this article top to bottom.

[lcaillo]

I don't think that any of them are going to do anything to reduce the cost of health care. It may be a big concern for many Americans, but the choice in this election will have little to do with solving the problems. It just is not a matter that will decide my vote in the Presidential election. Finding the least liberal candidate will.

[SteveCallas]

Her bill wasn't 15k because the hospital likes extortion, it was 15k because - as I believe Richard touched on earlier - multi-million dollar (sometimes frivolous) lawsuits have driven hospital's and dotor's insurance costs through the roof. As long as patients and lawyers keep up that act, that money will have to be recaptured somewhere. The answer is to stop awarding multi-million dollar lawsuits to people who are looking to retire from any possible mistake a doctor might make.

Ovalnut, I didn't catch the Andersoon Cooper interview, as I don't watch his show, but I will see if I can find it on the net, thanks for the heads up.

[Richard W. Haines]

thxgoon,

This is where we always get into trouble with political debates. Someone will make a personal reference about themselves or a friend who fell on hard times or hard luck and it puts everyone else in the awkward position of being called insensitive if we don't agree that 'government should do
something' in these cases.

[SteveCallas]

I like this thread, it's honest.

A line from a standup comedian that performed when I was in college sticks with me and still brings a smile to my face. He had made some political joke that put the left in a negative light and some people up front boo'd him. His retort, "Hey, I was a democrat when I was your age too.....then I started owning stuff".

[Richard W. Haines]

SteveCallas,

The other line I've heard is that if you're not a liberal when you're
young you have no heart and if you're not a conservative when you're older you have no brain.

[SteveCallas]

Winston Churchill I believe. I can't say I have ever seen any logic in the liberal mindset though, I still think it's the result of some type of abuse or trauma endured early in life.

[OvalNut]

SteveCallas wrote:

... I can't say I have ever seen any logic in the liberal mindset though, I still think it's the result of some type of abuse or trauma endured early in life.

Interesting. I've often considered it an outgrowth of arrested adolescent development. I hesitate to guess at the specific causal factor(s), yet some period of failed rebellion seems to be a part of it in my experience. The failed part is noteworthy, where it seems that I know many people who "successfully" survived the 60's and are as adamantly conservative as I am, yet I know others who have still not yet escaped that period's grasp who are hopelessly, organically, lost.

Tim

[lcaillo]

The health care problems are complex. It goes far beyond the litigation problem. I think one way that most agree to reduce costs is by limiting wated visits and testing. The best way that I see to do this is to make everyone have to pay something up front in the form of a higher deductable. If the problem ends up requiring treatment, give that money back. If it doesn't, the payment stands. This is just one small part of the solution, perhaps others have more.

[Richard W. Haines]

Icaillo,

Good luck trying to get the money back.

SteveCallas and Ovalnut,

Interesting comments.

[Richard W. Haines]

Here's a summary of the trade offs to ponder.

More socialism...less liberty but greater income equality. Less socialism...greater liberty but more income inequality. There probably is a trade off between liberty and equality, independence and security. I'll take liberty and independence any day over rationed equality and security.