Vista

**JimP** · **01-02-08, 07:49 AM**

I think if someone is trying to avoid problems with an operating system, they're not likely to try one that inherantly has a strong learning curve much less have to buy a second computer to use while they figure out their linux box.

But then again...I'm always up to a good challenge.

**wbassett** · **01-02-08, 08:34 AM**

I agree with drf, warpdrive and JimP... Linix is cool and 'sexy' but there is a bit of a learning curve and sometimes driver issues.

As much as people sometimes hate MS, when setup right it can be a very stable OS. I can't remember when the last time I had a system crash.

One of the problems Windows has is it has to accomodate a huge range of third party hardware and software, so that causes a lot of time and space to have drivers for everything, even if it's a general driver to get a card up and running and then have the latest one applied. Linux may or may not have drivers and Mac has a tight, almost closed environment.

I personally like Windows. I remember the days of DOS and 3.1 and now it's a breeze and in my opinion much better and more stable. I'm going to get clubbed to death for this I know it... but Gates took computers from a command line interface to a more intuitive graphical interface that was easier for new users to understand.

I do know that Apple and even the often forgotten Amiga's has gui's a long long time and it's nothing new, but the IBM Compatable PC is undeniably more widely used and for that platform he really revolutionized things.

I used to have an Amiga and was a die hard Amiga fan and supporter. It was doing things with video back when IBM compatibles were struggling with stereo sound. Not only could it play video, but it was being used as a non-linear editing system with the addition of the Video Toaster. It really was a power house that was years ahead of its time, but poorly marketed and it died a lonely death.

It took me awhile to accept Windows, especially 3.1 with the extended memory issues, but 98SE was a breakthrough in my opinion. I've used NT, XP, Server 2000 and a slew of other operating systems at work, including Sun and AIX and now I'm getting formal training on Linux as well. Still Windows is the easiest and most accomodating for most people.

Again, don't club me to death! That's an opinion. I do respect Mac's, and went through a time when I was curious about Linux, but when I couldn't get everything up and running I scrapped Linux and went back to 98SE. I still say wait until at least SP2 is released and more hotfixes are put out. Vista is an early adoption right now and there will be some issues with it, but for a person that has the hardware and can work through any new OS problems that always crop up, I think it will eventually be worth the upgrade. Especially for the media integration end of things.

**tonyvdb** · **01-02-08, 09:34 AM**

Get a Mac and don't worry about it

**drf** · **01-02-08, 03:57 PM**

Quote:

warpdrive wrote:

I knew the L word would eventually creep up. Personally I really don't see it as a viable alternative for a mainstream desktop unless you have a lot of time on your hands. It makes switching from XP to Vista seem like a stroll on the sidewalk.

Definitely, except that those who have succesfully made the leap will tell you that linux is a viable mainstream alternative. However I suspect if linux cost $600 and windows was open source the arguments would be exactely opposite.

Quote:

Get a Mac and don't worry about it

To be honest I have no idea what the current generation of macs are like.

**tonyvdb** · **01-02-08, 04:08 PM**

The latest Mac's are intel based and will run XP and Vista flawlessly in emulation but this is not the usual emulation as it is fully compatible with all software that runs on a PC and runs faster and better than a PC. I have a close friend who has a new mac and says its the best investment he ever made.

**warpdrive** · **01-02-08, 05:13 PM**

Quote:

drf wrote:

Definitely, except that those who have succesfully made the leap will tell you that linux is a viable mainstream alternative. However I suspect if linux cost $600 and windows was open source the arguments would be exactely opposite. .

Making the leap is the problem really. Math is easy once you've completed your Masters Degree.

I still don't agree that it's a good alternative. The operating system is only as good as the apps that run on them and no Linux is going to compete against PC or Mac. Until you can load your iTunes on it, run your Hallmark card maker software, and run the latest Dora game, then Linux is a good mainstream operating system

**nova** · **01-02-08, 06:08 PM**

Interesting conversation,.... I do not have a problem with Vista, nor do I have a probem learning some of the new stuff in Vista. I just don't like the look/feel of it. Really have not had it long enough to evaluate it's stability and all the new stuff it offers.

**lcaillo** · **01-02-08, 06:17 PM**

I have found it to be perfectly stable for what I do. The only issues that I have found have had to do with added levels of security, which can be tedious, and the annoying fact that when installing software, you can get a request for authorization that is not prioritized to the front of the window layers, so you don't notice it. Other than that, it seems very nice to me and everything that I have used has run fine. My calibration software has had no problems, other than making sure that I had the latest version of everything. The search feature in the start menu works great.

**imbeaujp** · **01-02-08, 08:30 PM**

Quote:

nova wrote:

Don't agree with that. I totally skipped 98SE, NT, 2000 and Millennium, went from 98 to XP. Vista may go the way of 2000 or ME in the next year or so, and we will have Windows 7 or Vienna and then ???? I think it is totally realistic to think I/we could skip 2 or 3 generations of Windows upgrades,...I believe there is a choice.

This is true if you stay with your "old" PC, but if you buy a new one today, many brands do not provide the drivers for "old" operating system and you must run Vista in it. This is the case with my new HP Pavillion.

But like many says, Vista works perfectly to date and it is a powerful OS for multimedia. I understand that for some people the learning curve is hard, but the "next generation" of power user seems to not have problems with "complex" OS. Old ones still have problems programing their VCR...

**thxgoon** · **01-02-08, 10:38 PM**

As an engineering student we are actually advised not to switch to Vista due to compatability issues with networking and current software. Even the new office had quite a learning curve the first few times I used it and I got frustrated when completing a spreadsheet took 3 times as long because I had to relearn excel. I can sympathize with the older crowd who just want to use the same computer every day and not have to relearn it to do the same things. I have and probably always will use a mac.. except for those pesky engineering apps that only run on windows...

**bobgpsr** · **01-03-08, 08:36 AM**

Quote:

thxgoon wrote:

I got frustrated when completing a spreadsheet took 3 times as long because I had to relearn excel.

I do not understand the Excel issue. I run MS Office 2003 with Excel on a Vista 64 PC with no problems or new learning curve. The same Excel that I previously used with XP.

Doesn't everyone know that you do not have to put up with a lot of the "new look and feel" of Vista if you configure the user perferences to do Standard Windows or Classic Windows. Turn off the Aero stuff, reset your mouse pointers to Windows Standard or Windows Black, change Explorer/Control Panel/WMP to use classic menus, etc. Then you mostly get back the old familiar Windows "look and feel" but with a lot of improvements & extra features under the hood. IMHO & IME.

**imbeaujp** · **01-03-08, 10:58 AM**

Quote:

bobgpsr wrote:

I do not understand the Excel issue. I run MS Office 2003 with Excel on a Vista 64 PC with no problems or new learning curve. The same Excel that I previously used with XP.

Doesn't everyone know that you do not have to put up with a lot of the "new look and feel" of Vista if you configure the user perferences to do Standard Windows or Classic Windows. Turn off the Aero stuff, reset your mouse pointers to Windows Standard or Windows Black, change Explorer/Control Panel/WMP to use classic menus, etc. Then you mostly get back the old familiar Windows "look and feel" but with a lot of improvements & extra features under the hood. IMHO & IME.

Totaly agree with you !

**ACGREEN** · **01-03-08, 10:13 PM**

This is the same arguement that I heard when XP was introduced. vista is better and is an improvement. i love vista over XP.

**Big Worm** · **01-03-08, 10:18 PM**

Quote:

ACGREEN wrote:

This is the same arguement that I heard when XP was introduced. vista is better and is an improvement. i love vista over XP.

Bingo!!!! When XP came out same story as today with Vista. It took some time but people came to like it. You will have the same thing with Vista.

**thxgoon** · **01-03-08, 10:32 PM**

Quote:

bobgpsr wrote:

I do not understand the Excel issue. I run MS Office 2003 with Excel on a Vista 64 PC with no problems or new learning curve. The same Excel that I previously used with XP.

I was talking about Office 2007 and comparing the difficullty I had with that change to the difficulty I think some have upgrading to Vista. They just want their computer to be the same, day after day.

**drf** · **01-04-08, 02:11 AM**

Quote:

ACGREEN wrote:

This is the same arguement that I heard when XP was introduced. vista is better and is an improvement. i love vista over XP.

Of course it is the same argument, it is same issues, the problems people have aren't about whether or not vista is better, it is about their ability to upgrade to a new OS. Some people can't because they don't have the cash to update software that will no longer work with vista (I haven't experienced this with vista but I did with XP) others can't becasue they don't have the mental capacity to get their heads around what you and I do intuitively.

**JimP** · **01-04-08, 02:26 AM**

Quote:

drf wrote:

...snip... others can't becasue they don't have the mental capacity to get their heads around what you and I do intuitively.

Sad but true. I've tried to help people who are familiar with something as simple as word and when the new version came out under Office 2007, they totally lost it. You might be thinking that I'm referring to a senior citizen, but I'm not...its a 46 year old who works in an office environment.

I guess the truth of the matter is that Microsoft on one hand changes things to do not much more than just to change things. What new features are added don't really apply to most of us. By the same token, users shouldn't be expected to have to figure things out. Unfortunately, if you use a computer and are not somewhat of a geek, you better know someone who is and is willing to help you out when you run into trouble.

**warpdrive** · **01-04-08, 09:18 AM**

We go through this every time a new OS comes out. There are always people that have trouble adapting. I think part of the blame is also the third party vendors, they all knew that Vista was coming but true Vista support from these vendors has been very slow

**drf** · **01-04-08, 02:48 PM**

Quote:

warpdrive wrote:

We go through this every time a new OS comes out. There are always people that have trouble adapting. I think part of the blame is also the third party vendors, they all knew that Vista was coming but true Vista support from these vendors has been very slow

And vice versa, MS are slow if non-existant in making there OSes backwards compatible. They seem to stop updating and providing hardware support for the previous version after every new OS come out. Imagine if a car company did that or even stoped making spares after 5 years? Everyone one would be in the poopies, not just those who couldn't afford a new car ever 5 years.

**warpdrive** · **01-05-08, 11:49 AM**

Quote:

drf wrote:

And vice versa, MS are slow if non-existant in making there OSes backwards compatible. They seem to stop updating and providing hardware support for the previous version after every new OS come out. Imagine if a car company did that or even stoped making spares after 5 years? Everyone one would be in the poopies, not just those who couldn't afford a new car ever 5 years.

It's called progress. As a programmer I know that you have to break some existing applications to add features that are, on a whole, better for the user. The old Windows operating systems were full of security holes, stability. Microsoft has to take a stance on this and provide a new architecture. The whole driver and security model is different and it was done that way because there were too many flaws in the old system. Programs had too much control over the innards of the OS and thus security was a nightmare. It's easy to argue Microsoft is evil but I know there is a lot more going on....it's a really complex problem to solve.

I know what you mean but there is definitely a limit on what they can do to support old programs and compatibility. I certainly wouldn't expect all older apps to work on Vista as they worked on XP, some programs are just not well done and use undocumented features of the operating system, so it's no wonder some of them don't run properly.

And car companies do run out of parts eventually, it takes longer that's all.

Like all brand new things (like a new car model), it takes time to discover all the flaws even though you did a good job testing it. Vista will become the norm and be as stable as XP is. Users also need time to familiarize themselves as they do when they buy a new receviver or any other complex item (phone, PDA, whatever)

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