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post #41 of 50 Old 04-13-14, 12:41 PM
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Re: Power cords

lcaillo wrote: View Post
The subject here is power cords, not line conditioners.

I can imagine a bit of efficiency gained with some power factor correction, which IIRC the Audio Uber Buss claims to have, but again, this kind of claim seems over the top and it is very easy to measure. Why not?
My point is that a power cable is a filter just like many line conditioners.

I'll see if I can set something up to measure the gain in efficiency. And whether it sounds over the top or not, it was pretty easy to hear.
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post #42 of 50 Old 04-13-14, 03:01 PM
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Re: Power cords

Most things that conduct are a filter to some degree. The question for me is whether the filter properties are meaningful.

It should be pretty easy to measure any of they effects that are claimed for power cords, if they exist. Lower noise floor, less noise in the signal carrying circuits supples, etc.

For the prices some are charging for power cords they should be able to afford to actually document what they claim.

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post #43 of 50 Old 04-13-14, 03:20 PM
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Re: Power cords

So what would a test like this look like. Do we measure those mentioned with say a blender running on the same circuit/as well as on another circuit? Or do we just measure in an environment at multiple times a day? Or what?
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post #44 of 50 Old 07-22-14, 09:16 PM
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Re: Power cords

While there is something to be said for custom length, or custom look, I would not expect any improvement in sound quality from a power cord change. If it makes you happy, by all means have at it. My recent power cord replacement involved a mouse chewed cord on a Kenwood amp. A smallish SPT-1 type non polarized lamp cable was replaced with a 6 foot, $1.47 cent, 16 gauge extension cord with the multi end cut off from Home Depot, and a matching size strain relief. The neutral side of the polarized plug was soldered to the same side as frame ground in the amp. I did use silver bearing solder though, so that will probably make up for my cheap - er- thrifty attitude. Works fine.
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post #45 of 50 Old 07-22-14, 10:32 PM
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Re: Power cords

cpestes wrote: View Post
While there is something to be said for custom length, or custom look, I would not expect any improvement in sound quality from a power cord change.
Typical response from someone who has not tried various cords in a high resolution system and therefore has no experience of the subject matter.
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post #46 of 50 Old 07-23-14, 06:40 AM
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Re: Power cords

I glad you were able to determine my qualifications and background so readily. I can tell pretty quick I don't fit in around here.. Happy listening, buy whatever sounds good to you, and hey, if a 1000 dollar power cord trips your trigger, go for it.
From the rules I had to agree to, but apparently not everyone:"
Please be polite, courteous and respectful of other members, as well as all products and services discussed. There is no need to be condescending or overly critical, not everyone will be as smart as the next person. If you can help, please do so, but remember, we all start learning somewhere and none of us are perfect. If you are the home theater, audio or video aficionado king daddy audiophile, we are glad to have you around, but please be humble and considerate to those of less fortunate knowledge. If you call a member dumb, stupid or an idiot (or anything resembling those) you will be on your way to being banned. Something to remember is unless we are the smartest human being on the planet, there is always going to be someone smarter than us... and we are always going to be "less" smart than at least a few others. Therefore, if you just absolutely must call someone stupid, consider looking in the mirror and go at it all you want... but keep it off this forum.

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post #47 of 50 Old 07-23-14, 07:49 AM
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Re: Power cords

Glen B wrote: View Post
Typical response from someone who has not tried various cords in a high resolution system and therefore has no experience of the subject matter.
Has nothing to do with experience, it's common sense that a uber high end cord is just snake oil as unless it has some sort of filters built into it not just fancy wire there can't be any improvement. I agree that many of the cheep cords that come with equipment have lousy ends and may not make the best connection but unless your replacing the wire in the wall all the way back to the electrical panel and while your at it run new lines out to the power pole in the back, oh and you might as well get the city to upgrade the transformer as well..... I think you see my point.

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post #48 of 50 Old 07-23-14, 08:50 AM
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Re: Power cords

Glen B wrote: View Post
Typical response from someone who has not tried various cords in a high resolution system and therefore has no experience of the subject matter.
Hi Glen,

As a manufacturer, I get to try (and sometimes own) all the goodies. That includes many high $$ power cords, in >$70k front ends, SS and tubes. I've been complimented by folks from Stereophile, Enjoy the Music, Positive Feedback, etc. (actually got a "Best sound of show" from PF once). Unlike audiophiles, I can also ace Klippel, Harman, Phillips GE, etc. reality hearing ability tests.
Not sure if any of that gives me experience, ability or a "high resolution" system by your reckoning, but with all that I have not been able to "hear" power cords, even in sighted, uncontrolled, relaxed, long term "audiophile" styled "listening". That said, I have no doubts others do, under similar settings.

Now regarding the actual efficacy of such products, lets get to some technical facts. Is it possible for a line cord to affect the signal, despite being the last 3-10' in front of the romex>power grid? Yes it can, due to Faradays Law of induction (sorry tonyvdb, that argument is invalid). Does that automatically translate to "audible" differences? No it does not.
The bottom line is this: unless a power supply (which the line cord is connected to) is extremely incompetently designed (or designed by an "audiophile"), the line cord will make no audible difference whatsoever. That means that it is highly improbable with most equipment, but not impossible.
It is also possible that claims of audibility are due purely to the way such audibility was determined - via uncontrolled "listening".
So for about 99% of equipment/users out there, it won't matter. For the others, it could come down to power supply design...or "listening" method design. Both possibilities exist and thus cannot be dismissed.
Let's just say they have higher standards for advertisements in the UK regarding these things: http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudi...x#.U8-8TkCTJ9t
Bottom line, if a fancy cord makes you happier, you should buy them.
Technically speaking, there is rarely reason to do so.

cpestes, welcome aboard.

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post #49 of 50 Old 07-23-14, 11:32 AM
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Re: Power cords

That was an excellent answer. I'll admit I was expecting snake-oil salesmanship when I read "as a manufacturer", but was pleasantly surprised by the balanced response.

I like to think of the power cord like the last few feet of hose pipe. As long as it is at least the same internal diameter as the rest of the hose, water will flow nicely. If it is narrower you'll see a difference. If it's bright pink, the wife might complain.
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post #50 of 50 Old 11-16-14, 09:33 AM
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Re: Power cords

From my experience what the power cord is attached to ( the plug end) is even more important.

I don't know if it has been discussed here or not but there is a very interesting paper at the Equitech site about balanced AC. I have been using isolation transformers for years to isolate my gear from the noisy grid. I have configured some isolation transformers for balanced AC and the results have been quite interesting. Noise reduction has been significant.

There are many things to consider when using isolation transformers or balanced isolation and from my experience to get the best results multiple transformers are needed. Purely analog gear with liner power supplies should not be connected to the same transformer as say a PC with a switching supply. Each type of gear creates its own noise that gets reflected back onto the AC grid.

I have developed a method for isolation from my personal experience.

Transformer 1. Purely analog gear. Recording consoles (primarly older analog) mic pres, compressors and EQs

Transformer 2. Digital gear mostly with switching type power supplies.

Transformer 3. Computers.

One thing that is important with isolation is to never connect anything besides the gear to the transformer like lamps and fans.

This all applies to HIFi gear as well. The grid is a noisy place.
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