Black Widow Ultra™ Development - Page 10 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #91 of 239 Old 12-27-13, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

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post #92 of 239 Old 12-30-13, 10:40 AM
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Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

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stryker wrote: View Post
hi again

after i saw some movies on my screen i decide 105" was to big for me ( i was always move my eyes down to read subtitles and up to see the movie) and now i have a 95" screen.
This is the number one reason I have always loved projectors more any big TVs. I love having to follow the action on the screen by turning my head. It draws me so much deeper into the movie (or game). It can be annoying with subtitiles, but I notice I get used to it fairly quickly.

Thanks for the update with the paint mixes.
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post #93 of 239 Old 01-07-14, 11:34 AM
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Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

Hey guys,

I have been following this thread with interest and am nicely confused about all the pre-existing and current BW options

I have a BenQ W1070. Room is a approx. a 12ft cube with off-white/slightly yellow walls + white ceiling. I get a little ambient light too. I get a really nice image from the W1070 but obviously there's a lot of light bouncing around during brighter scenes and I'm generally lacking the deep blacks and contrast that results in us all seeking a grey screen. Fortunately, my better half has already suggested painting one wall (or all walls) grey. Yippee! Naturally, I need some hand-holding and have a few specific questions too:

Her priority is domestic aesthetic. She wants our walls to look nice. Like if you google image search 'Revere Pewter'.
- Will BW look nice like that?
- Will it be expensive to paint 4 walls with it?
- Seems like there are a lot of BW variants and now BW "Ultra" variants, I have no idea where to start—help!

Hopefully this doesn't count as a thread hijack—I don't have enough posts to start a new one :/

Thanks!
--Leo
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post #94 of 239 Old 01-07-14, 03:57 PM
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Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

Welcome to HTS Leo!

The variants of the original Black Widow™ were mainly what paints to get in other countries to use as a base for the mix. This has changed with Black Widow Ultra™ in that the Auto Air Aluminum paint used no longer produces a strong color change to the base paint it's added to so now just about ANY neutral gray paint can be used as a base.

I assume the paint you are referring to is Benjamin Moore 'Revere Pewter', this paint is not very neutral in color and is quite "warm" with RGB values of 204, 199, 185. I did do some calculations based of the RGB value given for that color by BM and the shade of that paint is N8. This is good since there are several known neutral N8 colors. My favorite are Sherwin-Williams 'Unique Gray' or Behr 'Silver Screen' (don't use Behr paint unless you have too, we have a Sticky on this). Those colors should be available at BM was well, just ask them to match either one of those colors in BM paint. There is also a BM color called "1612" from the "BENJAMIN MOORE COLOR COLLECTION" That will also work as an N8.

While the final BW Ultra™ mix using an N8 base paint will be a very slightly lighter than a N7.5 BW Ultra™, it might be worth it if the wife likes it.

I wouldn't paint all four walls with the BW Ultra™ just to save money. The fact is that you might not even be able to tell the BW Ultra™ wall from the other three walls painted with just the N8 base paint except when under projection. The aluminum flakes in the AAA-F are that fine (but they are still doing their job).

Please tell us the size of your screen and how far the PJ is mounted from it. There is also a chance that just a regular N8 paint will work for your screen.
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post #95 of 239 Old 01-07-14, 06:17 PM
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Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

I was under the impression that the aluminum darkened the appearance of the paint. Is this not true, or only if you usea white Base?
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post #96 of 239 Old 01-07-14, 06:31 PM
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Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

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rdcollns wrote: View Post
I was under the impression that the aluminum darkened the appearance of the paint. Is this not true, or only if you usea white Base?
The original Auto Air Aluminum-fine paint DID darken the paint it was added to along with producing a blue color that needed to be corrected to get a neutral mix. This was because the aluminum flakes were not coated to prevent them interacting chemically with the paint. The new AAA-F uses coated flakes that still provide the reflective attributes of the paint, but pretty much do away with it darkening or significantly changing the color of the base paint.

As for adding the new AAA-F to white paints, Mech tried this and produced a N8.5 mix while another member here (sorry, I forget their name right now) did the same thing with a different brand of paint and got a N9.5 or something like that. We will be looking into that, but we don't do this stuff for a living and what with the things life throws our way we probably won't do much testing until this Spring or early Summer.
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post #97 of 239 Old 01-07-14, 06:56 PM
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Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

Quote:
Harpmaker wrote: View Post
Welcome to HTS Leo!

The variants of the original Black Widow™ were mainly what paints to get in other countries to use as a base for the mix. This has changed with Black Widow Ultra™ in that the Auto Air Aluminum paint used no longer produces a strong color change to the base paint it's added to so now just about ANY neutral gray paint can be used as a base.

I assume the paint you are referring to is Benjamin Moore 'Revere Pewter', this paint is not very neutral in color and is quite "warm" with RGB values of 204, 199, 185. I did do some calculations based of the RGB value given for that color by BM and the shade of that paint is N8. This is good since there are several known neutral N8 colors. My favorite are Sherwin-Williams 'Unique Gray' or Behr 'Silver Screen' (don't use Behr paint unless you have too, we have a Sticky on this). Those colors should be available at BM was well, just ask them to match either one of those colors in BM paint. There is also a BM color called "1612" from the "BENJAMIN MOORE COLOR COLLECTION" That will also work as an N8.

While the final BW Ultra™ mix using an N8 base paint will be a very slightly lighter than a N7.5 BW Ultra™, it might be worth it if the wife likes it.

I wouldn't paint all four walls with the BW Ultra™ just to save money. The fact is that you might not even be able to tell the BW Ultra™ wall from the other three walls painted with just the N8 base paint except when under projection. The aluminum flakes in the AAA-F are that fine (but they are still doing their job).

Please tell us the size of your screen and how far the PJ is mounted from it. There is also a chance that just a regular N8 paint will work for your screen.

Harpmaker—thank you so much for this response! Definitely starting to wrap my head around this now.

My image is 105" and my PJ lens is just over 10 feet away. So do you think I should be going with N8 (ignoring any resemblance to Revere Pewter for a moment) and do you think I should mix in the AAA-F?

Also, do you think I should paint the ceiling in N8 or matte black (depending on my better half's preferences, of course—she may wish to keep a white ceiling).

Cheers!
--Leo
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post #98 of 239 Old 01-08-14, 12:34 AM
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Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

Quote:
Leo_AV wrote: View Post
Harpmaker—thank you so much for this response! Definitely starting to wrap my head around this now.

My image is 105" and my PJ lens is just over 10 feet away. So do you think I should be going with N8 (ignoring any resemblance to Revere Pewter for a moment) and do you think I should mix in the AAA-F?
According to the Projector Central review of your PJ it is kicking out 1220 lumens in Cinema mode with full lamp and 880 lumens with Eco. With your screen size that gives 38 fL or 27 fL on a 1.0 gain screen. Both of those are a lot of light for a projected image! The industry suggested range is from 12 fL to 16 fL. What this means is that you can definitely go with a gray paint and get better black levels. Unless you absolutely must have a glaringly bright image I don't think you need to add any AAA-F to your paint to increase gain and reflectance, but just go with a matte finish paint (Valspar Signature interior latex in matte from Lowe's or Sherwin-Williams Duration in matte). Unfortunately, BM doesn't give the sheens of their paints in the standard way (they just say "flat" or "matte", etc.) so I can't compare them to Valspar and SW paints. If I had to guess I'd go with BM matte.

Quote:
Also, do you think I should paint the ceiling in N8 or matte black (depending on my better half's preferences, of course—she may wish to keep a white ceiling).

Cheers!
--Leo
The closer the top of your screen is to the ceiling the darker the ceiling needs to be, up to at least for 4' to 6' from the screen. What matters here is darkness not neutrality so if your wife liked a dark red (or any other color) over a lighter gray the dark color would be better. Same for the walls.
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post #99 of 239 Old 01-08-14, 12:37 AM
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Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

Hi All,



I have spent days reading about different formulas for painting a wall and have decided to go with the Black Widow mixture. I have a Sony FX40 projector which is 4000 Lumens so has plenty of punch but not a very good contrast ratio. Mainly because it is more of a data projector than HT. So this combined with the fact that there is a fair deal of ambient light in our room makes me want to go for a grey paint to increase the contrast and help offset some of the ambient light (as I have plenty of punch I don't mind sacrificing a little). So I want to go with BLACK WIDOW mix as I have seen lots of comparison screen shots and it produces the results that appeal to me and appear to suit me scenario.



I have found the Black Widow formula on Wikipedia for Australian Markets but there is a note that says:



Note: The new formulation Auto Air Aluminum requires a new base. Bermuda Beige will not work with the new formulation. More info coming...



I really need this new info as I am in between jobs and have time to paint the wall now which I wont have in a couple of weeks.



So PLEASE can anyone tell me either what the new mix is or if I try and get the old formula of auto air Aluminum, how can you tell that it is indeed the old formula before purchasing.



Thanks in advance!!
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post #100 of 239 Old 01-08-14, 08:18 AM
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Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

Quote:
Harpmaker wrote: View Post
According to the Projector Central review of your PJ it is kicking out 1220 lumens in Cinema mode with full lamp and 880 lumens with Eco. With your screen size that gives 38 fL or 27 fL on a 1.0 gain screen. Both of those are a lot of light for a projected image! The industry suggested range is from 12 fL to 16 fL. What this means is that you can definitely go with a gray paint and get better black levels. Unless you absolutely must have a glaringly bright image I don't think you need to add any AAA-F to your paint to increase gain and reflectance, but just go with a matte finish paint (Valspar Signature interior latex in matte from Lowe's or Sherwin-Williams Duration in matte). Unfortunately, BM doesn't give the sheens of their paints in the standard way (they just say "flat" or "matte", etc.) so I can't compare them to Valspar and SW paints. If I had to guess I'd go with BM matte.


The closer the top of your screen is to the ceiling the darker the ceiling needs to be, up to at least for 4' to 6' from the screen. What matters here is darkness not neutrality so if your wife liked a dark red (or any other color) over a lighter gray the dark color would be better. Same for the walls.
Ok, awesome, I'll give it a shot without the AAA-F. FYI, I'm using SmartEco mode (although I don't think that makes a difference to your recommendation).

I'm not tied to Benjamin Moore paints—I'm happy to get paint from anywhere in NYC, so long as you guys recommend it! I'm a bit lost as to how to get the exact paint, though. What do I walk into Sherwin-Williams (for example) and ask for exactly?

Thanks again! Really excited to get this going.

Cheers!
--Leo
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