Black Widow Ultra™ Development - Page 6 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

 1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #51 of 235 Old 11-30-13, 07:23 PM
Moderator Emeritus
Don
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Central PA
Posts: 3,772
Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

Quote:
fragfeaster777 wrote: View Post
Hi Harpmaker

Thank you very much for your very detailed and helpful response! Much appreciated. I am now confident I know what to order and get the project going.

I was under the wrong impression that somehow BW could up the actual (measured) contrast ratio, I didnt realise it was just the perceived contrast ratio that was being affected. May I was being naive that somehow the aluminium didnt reflect much black and reflected more light progressively the brighter it got
Don't blame yourself too much since this erroneous enhanced contrast concept is advanced by another large DIY Screen forum elsewhere and even a few commercial screen companies, but if you think about it a little there is no way a paint, no matter how complex it is to make, can cause a differential in light reflectance - it goes against the physics of light which have been studied for centuries. If a screen reflects 30% more light on-axis to the PJ then ALL the reflected light at that angle will have that added gain whether the colors are light or dark. What some folks do is measure the whites on-axis and then measure the blacks off-axis to come up with a supposed increase in actual image contrast, but all they are really doing is showing you that the screen has a viewing cone. Also, people tend not to bother learning what screen gain really is and what it truly means. A screen is being hit with a finite amount of light, if the peak gain is 1.3 (a 30% increase over a Unity gain screen) then that means that that 30% is being taken from other areas of the screen thus making those areas reflect LESS light than a Unity gain screen. While this does create a type of differential in light reflectance it has nothing to do with increasing actual contrast.

Perceived contrast works well and will introduce what SEEMS like a true increase in contrast, but what is really happening is a type of optical illusion where the human eye/brain sees a gray, but thinks it is really a white! Look at the optical illusion below, the squares marked A and B are the SAME shade of gray!



Quote:
Anyway, I still think I will try your BW formulation and not just the grey screen as I find 20fl isnt that much for my room and also I do watch a little bit of 3D, so every bit of brightness helps. So I take-it the 4:1 ratio is the optimum ratio that you guys found that preserved image quality whilst adding a bit of gain? I'm intrigued as to whether the deterioration in quality would show up in calibration tests, such as sharpness.
The 4:1 ratio was found to be the best for the old AAA-F, more testing will have to be done to see if it is also the best for the new AAA-F. For a number of reasons both Mech and I have not had the time to do this testing yet.

By "deterioration in quality" I assume you mean image quality where nothing has changed but the ratio of AAA-F to the base. The only negative viewing attribute that we have seen is a graininess in the image when too much aluminum is in the mix, sharpness hasn't been effected.

Quote:
Thank you again, I will keep you guys informed of my progress. This weekend is to order parts, and next weekend is to paint!
No problem!
Harpmaker is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #52 of 235 Old 12-01-13, 04:38 AM
Shackster
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 5
Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

Awesome reply Harpmaker, thanks so much!

You are right, I did read in one of the screen manufacturers that adding gain was the only way to improve contrast, what a load of . Your explanation is really thorough and easy to understand.

I'm going to place the order for materials today, and get this thing going. I will report back with progress soon.

Thank you again for the great explanation!
fragfeaster777 is offline  
post #53 of 235 Old 12-02-13, 03:58 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3
Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

Hi.

I'm new here. I've been looking through all the info on here and still unsure of what paint I actually need.

The projector I will be using is a benq w1070

It will be in a room with slight ambient light with magnolia walls and white celling.

I'm confused as to wether I actually need to make a mix with the aaa or just a plain paint will do. And what shade of grey I need.

Sorry for the beginner question but I have read through all the forums and still can't decide what I actually need.

I appreciate any replies.
Skeld is offline  
post #54 of 235 Old 12-03-13, 03:28 PM
Shackster
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 5
Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

Hi Skeld,

I am a newbie here too but have previously asked your questions so let me respond, and others can chime in if my answers are wrong:

The paint that I will be using is the Dulux Grey Steel 2 (53/000) Matt mixed with the AAA-F. The addition of the AAA-F is to allow the screen to bit a bit brighter as the added aluminium reflects light of the screen. However, the downside to adding aluminium is that the picture becomes a bit more grainy. From what I understand adding base:AAA-F in a ratio of 4:1 minimises this graininess but maintains the screen gain.

Also, remember to get a primer. The one I got is the Dulux Primer for Difficult Surfaces

In terms of the Benq w1070, is it calibrated? I found that my Benq W7000 would throw something ridiculous like 35-40fl onto the screen but when you calibrate it, it's closer to 20fl, because the projector runs out of red at higher output levels. If you will never calibrate your projector then go ahead and just use the Grey Steel 2. If you ever calibrate the Benq then you may want to consider adding in the AAA-F so that at least if you watch 3D you'll gain a bit more brightness back

I hope this helps. I am not an expert by no means.
fragfeaster777 is offline  
post #55 of 235 Old 12-03-13, 03:31 PM
Shackster
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 5
Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

Hi guys,

For those of you that have spray painted the Black Widow mix, can you recommend any good tutorials on youtube or something on how best to use the spray gun to paint the screen? I think for my situation it would be much better to use the spray.

Also, is there a spray gun/system here that people particularly recommend? Hopefully one that doesnt cost too much either?

Thanks!
fragfeaster777 is offline  
post #56 of 235 Old 12-04-13, 07:16 AM
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3
Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

Hi Fragfeaster

Thanks for the reply. After reading more and more forum posts I think I decided to go with the steel grey 2 like you suggest. I don't know if it's best to leave it like that or add the aaa. I haven't brought the pj yet I'm buying it myself for Christmas so don't have a clue how to set it up but will spend time doing it right and calibrating it like you suggest.

I do want to use it for 3d so do you think it's best to go with the aaa mix or just stick to the standard grey steel 2?
Skeld is offline  
post #57 of 235 Old 12-04-13, 07:49 AM
HTS Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Greece
Posts: 515
Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

Quote:
Skeld wrote: View Post
Hi Fragfeaster

Thanks for the reply. After reading more and more forum posts I think I decided to go with the steel grey 2 like you suggest. I don't know if it's best to leave it like that or add the aaa. I haven't brought the pj yet I'm buying it myself for Christmas so don't have a clue how to set it up but will spend time doing it right and calibrating it like you suggest.

I do want to use it for 3d so do you think it's best to go with the aaa mix or just stick to the standard grey steel 2?
Hello...

How big will be your screen? Are you going to calibrate the projector? Since you are not interessed in 3D, you can use a gray paint that provides the best possible contrast in terms of light output and black levels that 1070 is capable of. Do you have the RGB numbers for grey steel 2?
Yiannis1970 is offline  
post #58 of 235 Old 12-04-13, 11:08 AM
Shackster
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 67
My System
Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

Quote:
Skeld wrote: View Post
Hi Fragfeaster

Thanks for the reply. After reading more and more forum posts I think I decided to go with the steel grey 2 like you suggest. I don't know if it's best to leave it like that or add the aaa. I haven't brought the pj yet I'm buying it myself for Christmas so don't have a clue how to set it up but will spend time doing it right and calibrating it like you suggest.

I do want to use it for 3d so do you think it's best to go with the aaa mix or just stick to the standard grey steel 2?
Keep in mind that gray is used to improve black levels in the presence of ambient light. The purpose of the AAA is to add a gray tint to improve black levels while simultaneously improving the brightness of the picture (perceptually improving contrast and brightness by making it easier to distinguish levels of black without washing out the colors, etc.). If you add the AAA to your paint store's base white, the result will be a light gray, so it can already manage a minor amount of ambient light. If you use a gray base, that should really be determined by the amount of light in your room and the brightness of your projector.

I would recommend installing the PJ first and determining what makes the most sense after using it. If your wall is already painted white you might have no issue. For me, my setup was perfect on a plain white wall at night and watching sports during the day, but during the day movies were too washed out even with the blinds pulled and the settings optimized. My projector isn't bright enough to paint a dark enough gray to control the light, so black widow is ideal for me with a neutral white base, but everyone's situation and preferences are different, and I'm not sure you'll know until you see it in action.

Of course if your wall needs to be painted now regardless, then no harm in taking your best guess, but I would stay with a simple paint as you can always go over it with black widow or something else later.

Last edited by rdcollns; 12-04-13 at 11:13 AM.
rdcollns is offline  
post #59 of 235 Old 12-04-13, 12:50 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3
Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

Thanks for the reply.

My walls are cream magnolia at the moment. In going to make the screen out of a sheet of mdf and fix to the wall. I will mainly be watching movies at night but I will be using it for playing cod on the Xbox during the day. I have black out blinds but obviously some ambient light will still be present.

I think from what I have read im going to go with a steel grey 2 paint and see what it's like. If I feel I need extra brightness I will go over it with the black widow mix at a later date.

Thanks for all the help.
Skeld is offline  
post #60 of 235 Old 12-08-13, 11:10 PM
Senior Shackster
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 112
Re: Black Widow Ultra™ Development

I apologize in advanced if this has been covered. Here in Canada I have access to AAA-F (new) no problem, but i'm trying to figure out the base paint.

We have Dulux location everywhere as well as some Lowe's and of course Home Depot locations.

The plan is to prime with Kilz 2, and then do a BW made with 00NN 53/000 "Veil" at a 4:1 Ratio

My question is around paint "BASE" is you look on the Dulux web site specifically for Canada, there are various options (again i'm not stuck with Dulux is Lowes if a better option)

http://www.dulux.ca/en/our-products/...terior-paints/ Diamond? LifeMaster? Glidden Ultra? I have read some people had different experience with Diamond specifically because of the way the TiO2 is in that product.

They list various base paints, and they all come in various sheens and types. What i'm looking for is what is the best recommended base and sheen type for a proper BW mix...

I did notice some people still using the "Valspar Ultra White Flat" base, but I noticed Eggshell mentioned? Many discussions of Snow and Veil and various grey versions - but just want to ensure again that the base is right.

Last edited by grinthock; 12-09-13 at 06:08 AM.
grinthock is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
black , development , ultra™ , widow

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now




PLEASE COMPLETE ALL REQUIRED FIELDS BELOW... THANKS!

REQUIRED FIELDS ON THIS PAGE
YOU MUST COMPLETE ALL OF THESE

Username
Password
Confirm Password
Email Address
Confirm Email Address
Random Question
Random Question #2




User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
PLEASE READ BELOW PRIOR TO ENTERING AN EMAIL ADDRESS!

ATTENTION!

YOU MUST ACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT!

Activation requires you reply to an email we will send you after you register... if you do not reply to this email, you will not be able to view certain areas of the forum or certain images... nor will you be able download software.

AN INVALID EMAIL ADDRESS WILL CAUSE YOUR ACCOUNT TO BE DELETED!

See our banned email list here: Banned Email List

We DO NOT respond to spamcop, boxtrapper and spamblocker emails... please add @hometheatershack DOT com to your whitelist prior to registering or you will get nowhere on your registration.


Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML is not allowed!
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 


For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome