Wow, this is great, where have you been all my life... - Home Theater Forum and Systems -

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post #1 of 8 Old 11-01-10, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ashland, Oregon
Posts: 9
Wow, this is great, where have you been all my life...

First, thank you for all the information. I was pretty hungry..

I have a pretty good theater in my new home, truth is I got the room from a huge mistake the contractor made in construction layout but suffice to say, I like my room. 24x17x13 Stadium stepped seating..

Im struggling with screen materiel and as soon as I get home from this trip, Im headed straight to Michaels and SherwinWilliams to get the C&S ingredients and put it up. Fantastic Article!!!

Just for a little senisibility... could you give me an idea how it is likely to do in my enviroment?

Mitsubishi HC6000 with a 18'2" throw onto a smooth flat drywall surface currently painted satin white. Zoom is run all the way out (or almost) for a 176" diagonal 6:9 viewing area.

Skip Trowl surfaces (Lowes Paint) Flat dark Grey Walls, Flat Dark Ebony celing, no windows, no windowed doors only wall reflected projector light for ambiant interfearance. Dark Grey short shag carpet. Black felt curtians.

Denon 5805
Sony BDP-CX960
LG BD200
Sunfire CRM-2, 5.1
Sunfire True Subwoofer

Thanks again for all your information... Jay
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post #2 of 8 Old 11-01-10, 07:33 PM
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Re: Wow, this is great, where have you been all my life...

Hi Jay, welcome to the forum!

I'm glad you have found info here to be of value.

My main concern is that you don't have enough lumens to give a normal brightness screen. Let me explain. Your PJ is rated at 1000 lumens, but when calibrated and used in Cinema mode, to get the best image contrast and color, that number drops to around 500 lumens. Dividing 500 lumens by 91.375 (the square footage of your screen) gives brightness levels of only about 5.47 fL. If you are using Eco mode that figure drops another 23% giving only 4.21 fL. These are very low numbers and most people would consider that image too dim. Many are happy with 12 fL, but the brightness movie theaters strive for (if they comply with industry standards) is 16 fL. Add the fact that a PJ lamp can lose around 50% of it's brightness over it's life (it actually may lose it in the first half of it's life expectancy) and you end up with even lower brightness values.

If you use a screen that has a peak gain less than 1.0 the fL values will drop as the screen gets darker. The mix you are thinking of using, C&S™, has a peak gain of 0.98 in initial testing so you could go with those brightness figures as they are.

I just have to ask - are you happy with the brightness of your image on your satin white wall? I assume your PJ can't be moved closer to the screen, but you can use your zoom to get up to twice the brightness you now have, but of course the image size will shrink.

If you want to still try using C&S™ be advised that Sherwin-Williams is phasing out their Luminous White base and replacing it with their High Reflective White base. The latter paint CANNOT be used to make C&S™ and get a color neutral screen. However, there is some ambiguity as to whether or not the Luminous White base has really been discontinued and it may be available by special order. Check you local SW stores about that.

Depending on how far to the left or right of center your viewers are setting you may be able to increase the gain of your C&S™ screen by using an eggshell or satin base instead of a flat base, BUT this hasn't been tested and may result in hot spotting (which I assume your current satin white screen does).

Other than not having quite the number of lumens for such a large screen your HT sounds great! After you have made 5 posts please feel free to post some photos of it!
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post #3 of 8 Old 11-01-10, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ashland, Oregon
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Re: Wow, this is great, where have you been all my life...

Actually, we are pretty happy with the brightness and it is running in Eco mode, I could turn up the light a bit on the PJ by turning that off. That said, the hot spotting is not too bad but I see it in brighter pictures. I'm really after a less washed out color problem (that only I notice). Likely this is due to the throw and 1000 lumens... but I hope I can make it a bit richer. I do like the projector.

Id bet the gain improvement will help as the white I used is likely a lot less than +.98 Reducing the size of the screen via zoom wont hurt a bit and the seating is all pretty much down the middle with isles and stairs on both sides. I also have not framed the screen area yet so nothing preventing that screen reduction. In fact, it will also give me more front wall to install some acoustic treatment as I saw in this post...

The best seating is forward so reducing the screen will make viewing a lot easier anyway, the rear seating is not as good acoustically as its against the rear wall. Still, its not bad and everyone seems to enjoy it a lot no matter where they sit. You just lose the surround definition.

Again, I'm so grateful for the information here and cant wait to get the whole room tuned up through all the suggestions here and the "Room EQ Wizard"

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post #4 of 8 Old 11-01-10, 08:56 PM
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Re: Wow, this is great, where have you been all my life...

I certainly understand wanting to run in Eco mode, especially with that PJ (5000 hours instead of 2000).

C&S™ will help a bit in getting increased perceived contrast (technically being a very light gray mix), but how much improvement you will really get depends on the real shade of your current white screen (there are a LOT of different whites out there).

Acceptable screen brightness is a very subjective thing. If you try C&S™ and find that you need at bit darker screen for improved image contrast and color depth our Elektra™ mix will handle that. I'll provide links to the relevant threads, but Elektra™ is really just C&S™ with some neutral gray paint added to change it's shade. Elektra™ is still in the Developers forum because I haven't had time to take comparative photos to show how well it works as has been done with Cream&Sugar™ and Black Widow™, but we have a number of users that are quite happy with this screen mix (thanks again to them for being beta testers).
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post #5 of 8 Old 11-01-10, 08:59 PM
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Re: Wow, this is great, where have you been all my life...

We have been right here waiting for you.
Welcome to the shack!


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post #6 of 8 Old 11-01-10, 11:15 PM
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Re: Wow, this is great, where have you been all my life...

These guys are great Jay... tell the whole world.

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post #7 of 8 Old 11-14-10, 10:24 PM
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Re: Wow, this is great, where have you been all my life...

How far away from the screen are the eyes of the people in the front row? 176" screen sounds huge! I'd be fearful that watching a movie would be like watching a tennis match...

I am 11.5' away from my screen (front row, eyes to screen) and am using a 125" diagonal screen, which is slightly bigger than the recommended screen size.

According to:
At 18'2" with a screen size of 176", your optimal seating distance is 18' - 28'. Depending on your seats, I'd guess your back row is 22' from screen and your front row (assuming two rows) is ~15'.

At 18'2" throw distance, the calculator there suggest a 143" diagonal screen, with optimal seating distance of 15' - 23', so the numbers would all work out (without having to move the PJ mount). With this size screen you'd gain a couple of fL of brightness (which will be more important as your bulb ages).

Can you confirm your front row eyes to screen distance? I'd certainly like to see a pic or two of your setup.

I can second Sonnie's statement. These guys will not steer you wrong with respect to screen paint choice!!

Screen shots from my HT (featuring Elektra DIY screen paint).
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post #8 of 8 Old 11-15-10, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ashland, Oregon
Posts: 9
Re: Wow, this is great, where have you been all my life...

Dear Canuck... I actually got my screen dimensions from Projector Centrals Throw calculator and never actually measured it and now with some good advice from this forum, it is a tiny bit smaller 170" diagonal measured. The back row is 18 feet from the screen and the front row is 12 feet. I zoomed in the picture in but not as small as you might thingk as a lot of the movies we watch "letter Box" the picture into a smaller image than the actuall screen surface. Viewing and sound is great from the 12 foot seats however viewing from the 18 foot seats is better but since your up agains the back wall for viewing it also means sound isn't as good there. I could easily make the screen smaller (and am considering it based on comments here) but playing games like Halo or Black Ops on the xBox is enhanced by a bit too big screen.. I will try to get some pictures of the room up but my digital camera really bites in the very dark room even with all the lights on. We are not unhappy with the brightness of the image even in eco mode on the PJ, as the room is really really dark and I have nonreflective paint or fabric on all surfaces. Last week after framing in the screen I put up some Black Felt floor to celing curtains that completely cover the surrounding screen wall... We like it.. and I think it helped with acoustics too. Right now, Im trying to make sence of the Room EQ Wizard to get the sound right.. Ill let you know how that goes if I can make sense of it.. Jay
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