Data and Testing Definitions and Intro - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #11 of 48 Old 11-09-07, 07:15 PM
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Re: Data and Testing Definitions and Intro

CIE Plots

I'm hoping that Bill or Jim will post their CIE plots and such here. It takes me a bit of time to get the data and put it into a spreadsheet and they are kind enough to do the plots!


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post #12 of 48 Old 11-09-07, 07:53 PM
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Re: Data and Testing Definitions and Intro

Magnifications

One of the main purposes I had behind magnifying commercial screens and DIY screens is to compare quality to DIY offerings. Why? To see where DIY is at compared to commercial. I've always stated that the current crop of DIY products is only 90% of the way there and they'd never get the last 10% mainly due to better quality control at a screen manufacturing plant as opposed to someone's garage.

DL Glass Beaded Screen



HoloDisplay's HoloVega 200x



DL Silver Vision 200X



DL Silver Matte 200X



DL High Power 200X



DaLite Silver Matte at 10X



My Pigment Free Gray experiment.



Silver Fire





CMRA's S-I-L-V-E-R



Pearlizing medium over both True Value Winter Mountain and Winter Mist. This is the 1X formula applied once. The current recommendation is a 2X formula rolled on twice!





To stress again how bad of an idea this really is, here are the spectral curves for Winter Mountain pre-topcoat and post-topcoat.





If you look closely at each of the images you notice several things. For example the size of the glass beads from the High power and the Glass Beaded screens, the texture of Silver Matte, etc. What really stands out is the difference between the craft store paints and the manufactured products. The DIY screens which add mica to their mix have little specs of blue, red, yellow, green, etc. You do not see that in any of the manufactured screens or, for that matter, in my rendition of the PFG. The light hitting the screen is reflected back accurately not shifted color-wise.


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post #13 of 48 Old 12-22-07, 08:25 AM
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Re: Data and Testing Definitions and Intro

The latest data for most everything tested is here. This will change a lot in the coming weeks! As soon as I figure out a decent way to put the spreadsheet or a capture of it here I will. Anyone know an easy way to convert a spreadsheet to an image file?

mech


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post #14 of 48 Old 12-22-07, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Data and Testing Definitions and Intro

Here is the chart I am working on, and this will also be updated once all the samples are tested.


Same problem, the spreadsheet looks much cleaner and each line is actually a color representation of the screen color. On the spreadsheet you can really see the difference between some of the screens.

One thing I added that I haven't seen anyone else use is a D65 color temperature rating. Basically if we are between 6460 to 6550 you can consider it a very close near neutral, and of course the closer to 6500 a gray is, the closer to neutral that screen will be. I added this so people can get an idea of which direction the color temperature shift is going in.

When we talk about color shifting, it isn't just one color being affected, it is all of them. That is why it can sometimes be difficult to calibrate a projector to a screen... we try adjusting the individual color components and the screen (if it has a bad shift) is impacting all the colors, not just the one we try to compensate for at the projector. Sure with enough tweaking and if the screen isn't off that much you will get the image calibrated in, but in some cases it isn't possible to get everything right. That is why I am a stickler for D65.

This thread will be getting a major overhaul soon. Not because the information is bad, when it was done, the person doing the testing was using C as the reference point not D65. I was not aware of that at the time the original testing was done, but have been aware of it since coming to HTS. I decided to wait until we had everything retested and referenced to D65 before doing the update, and we have been in the process of redoing everything to D65. To be clear, again the previous data isn't wrong, and if we continued to use the C reference point (C is the older reference point that D65 replaced) everything would still be relate-able, but since everything is now being done and referenced to D65, we can't compare the two since they both have slightly different reference points. So you will see some data change, but that is only to keep everything within the same color space. The theory and principles discussed will remain the same though.

One thing to note though, is something identified and tested as a true neutral for D65, will also appear neutral for C and vice versa. The reason is a true neutral won't exhibit metamerism like a color will.

[MOUSE]A brief explanation of metamerism again is: Two colors could look the same under one lighting source, but completely different under a different lighting source. The nature of a neutral gray is that it will reflect (and absorb) all colors equally, therefore it will remain neutral under a wide range of lighting conditions. Note I said a wide range and not all light sources, if it is out on the far end of the spectrum then there most likely will be a slightly different look to the neutral reference sample, but nowhere as much of a change as you will see with a color. For C and D65, they are close enough that a neutral will remain neutral for both Illuminates. That is not guessing or supposition, I spoke to Mark Fairchild who is the head of the color science department at Rochester Institute of Technology and those were his exact words.[/MOUSE]

So how much of a difference is there between D65 and C Illuminates? D65 is 6500 Kelvins and C is 6774 Kelvins in temperature. Since everything in the industry uses D65, that's what we are using as well, and why I will be updating the initial information to reference D65 instead of C. Again, the data isn't wrong, but we can't discuss two different reference points and have a meaningful conversation between the two items being compared. This is a topic that has had some debate over, but I think it is easy to understand in order to compare things they have to have the same reference or there is no way to make a comparison, at least not any that is meaningful.

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post #15 of 48 Old 12-27-07, 08:55 PM
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Re: Data and Testing Definitions and Intro

The list has been updated. Click here.

mech


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post #16 of 48 Old 12-30-07, 05:26 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Data and Testing Definitions and Intro

I have to make a note, my Behr Silver Screen sample is the eggshell finish, not flat.

My original quart that I used for my screen was the flat finish, I went back and bought another quart and they messed up and made it in eggshell. There does appear to be a difference in what base is used.

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post #17 of 48 Old 12-30-07, 08:00 AM
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Re: Data and Testing Definitions and Intro

Quote:
wbassett wrote: View Post
I have to make a note, my Behr Silver Screen sample is the eggshell finish, not flat.

My original quart that I used for my screen was the flat finish, I went back and bought another quart and they messed up and made it in eggshell. There does appear to be a difference in what base is used.
I'll add that to the list Bill. And I'll try to get the rest of the laminates done tonight.

mech


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post #18 of 48 Old 12-31-07, 10:23 AM
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Re: Data and Testing Definitions and Intro

There are many references to the Munsell greys throughout the forum. This thread seems to be a good place to post the scale with the respective RGB values and shades. The color swatches were captured after calibrating my monitor, but keep in mind the exact shade you see is going to be monitor dependent. However, this should give a good idea of the gradations. It becomes fairly obvious why, for pj screens, you never hear us talking about anything below about Munsell N7. Below that and things are getting quite dark.

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post #19 of 48 Old 01-02-08, 02:11 PM
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Re: Data and Testing Definitions and Intro

The latest to be incorporated into our Data thread will be actual screen reflection readings. You can test and mix and roll/spray as much as you want but if your concoction doesn't present the source as intended, you're wasting your time.

How did I accomplish this? Well after numerous pms with HTS member <^..^>Smokey Joe, Smokey advised that I should use a 80% gray field to see how far close/off from neutral these screens are. I did this on axis, but in the future I will do some off-axis as well. It appears I'm going to have to do the pearl top coats eventually as well! Also keep in mind that I'm new at this so I'm hoping Smokey will 'hold my hand'!

To start off I pointed the spectrophotmeter at the projector and calibrated it to D65 using the 80% gray field. I then set up the spectro in one spot facing the screen. One by one I placed each test panel in front of the spectro. Readings were taken using HCFR. I re-calibrated the spectro every 3 panels which was about 10 minutes elapsed time. Unless Smoke has a different way to do it, I captured screen shots of HCFR with each screen. That is what I'll post here shortly.

First a shot of the setup calibrating the PJ:



Then a couple of how I accomplished the readings:






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post #20 of 48 Old 01-02-08, 02:14 PM
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Re: Data and Testing Definitions and Intro

The Screen Captures

I'm going to work on this lousy compression later. But this is it for now.

Wilsonart Designer White

HCFR has been shown to have some bad calculations. I'll be replacing the screen grabs shortly.

True Value Winter Mountain

HCFR has been shown to have some bad calculations. I'll be replacing the screen grabs shortly.

True Value Winter Mist

HCFR has been shown to have some bad calculations. I'll be replacing the screen grabs shortly.

Sherwin Williams Gray Screen

HCFR has been shown to have some bad calculations. I'll be replacing the screen grabs shortly.

mech


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