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Screen Advice Needed - 8350 in apartment with ambient light !

6K views 28 replies 5 participants last post by  itsZACyo 
#1 · (Edited)
I've been waiting to dive into the projector world for years now and am going to be moving to a new apartment in a few months and figure now is a better time than any so i want to start planning my setup accordingly. I've done a lot of research and it seems the 8350 is going to be my best bet for an excellent entry level PJ with a lot of lumens to battle the ambient light issues i'm going to have. I'm looking to do a 92" screen and thankfully i have the flexibility of placing the PJ as far up or back as i need to. Projector central shows that at 11' lens to screen it will be right about 27 fL but i can move it up or back based on appropriate recommendations. The PJ is going into the living room and will be ceiling mounted (9 ft. ceilings). My biggest issue is there are very big windows and even some sliding glass doors that let a lot of light in during the day. They are all tinted glass and come with pull down sun shades but i'm not sure how much they're going to help when the sun is hitting it directly. Thankfully 85% of our viewing time will be at night, but i do like to watch football and golf during the day on the weekends so i need a screen that's going to be the best of both worlds, hence why i'm here. I've read up a lot on Black Widow and Silver Fire but i'm curious what the experts advise for my situation. See photos below for additional reference. I'm planning to project on the far wall where the 2 photos are and will have a sectional with chaise for a sitting distance of 11'. My gut tells me my best bet is going to be rolling something onto thrifty white board and i'm not totally opposed to spraying, but if comparable results can be had by rolling a mixture, i would probably prefer to do that for simplicity, but as always, i'm open to suggestions and entrust the knowledge here for the best results. Thanks in advance for your help!

P.S. for those that frequent AVS as well, sry for the double post... just trying to find the best solution for my situation :T




 
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#2 ·
Hi NateDog07V, welcome to HTS! :wave:

First off, here is a link to an area where you can make "padding posts" just to bump up your post count to over 5 so you can then post photos.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/testing/

Give us a chance to cogitate on your situation and get back to you. :T

Don't worry about posting both here and at AVS DIY Screens, we understand simply wanting to get the most info on screen choices. Our methods and "screen philosophy" are quite different than those usually expounded at AVS; we take a much more scientific approach here. Since you are interested in info on Silver Fire you should read our Silver Fire thread here (info on the current SF v2 starts about post #71).
 
#3 ·
Yea the differences of opinion based on the reading i've done on both sites caused me to post here as well.. it's clear that folks are big proponents of Black Widow for a number of reasons, but most importantly, it works and its simple. I'm just curious if it will work for my application which has a great deal of ambient light issues, or if another DIY mix would be better suited for the results i'm aiming for.
 
#4 ·
This is going to be short, as I'm running out the door at the moment and for that I apologize. From what you're saying, BW™ would probably be the better option. Mainly because you would need the darkest sf that they offer to combat the ambient lighting. All of the sf's I have tested perform in the same general manner, they are generally something like the current 3oz color component. It's N7.5 and on axis the whites perform like a N8.5. Off axis the whites degrade rather quickly - ~20 degrees - to the performance of a N7.5. Blacks do the same thing on and off axis - they are darker off axis than on axis. How does that relate to your room? Well... someone standing at that sink will see much darker blacks and less white whites than someone sitting on axis with the screen. I assume you're putting it where the two pictures currently reside, is that right? Or were you thinking of putting it where the tv currently resides? If you put it where the tv currently sits than the folks at the table are really gonna have a lousy dim image to view. Keep in mind that a lot of the images you see that are from a side angle have no other reference to them. So the camera is taking extra care to try and brighten the image up.

Gotta run...

Welcome to HTS by the way! :wave:
 
#5 ·
By far the best thing you can do to enhance your projected image quality is to get better control of the light coming in through those large windows (especially the ones adjacent to the screen wall).

BW™ would be the mix of choice of all our reflectively enhanced mixes, but I'm not sure you really need it. Mech is doing some testing of a similar gray paint in an eggshell finish and that might be the better choice for you. We have had a few reports of people seeing a graininess in their BW™ screens which we think we have traced to having a very bright projected image as the more light striking the screen the more chance there is for the individual aluminum flakes to "light up". BTW, the same thing applies to mixes using too much mica (Silver Fire) and the problem is usually seen as a shimmering or grainy effect in large areas of solid color (bright blue sky, fields of snow).

Thrifty White Hardboard can make an excellent screen, but I strongly recommend priming and painting the BACK of the panel and not the melamine coated side. Painting the back of the panel will do two important things, it will provide a MUCH better surface for the paint to adhere to (you will literally be able to remove all the paint from the melamine side with just a fingernail) and by painting the back both sides will be covered against moisture intrusion so the panel will be less likely to warp due to humidity changes. When it's only painted on one side tempered hardboard tends to curl like a corn chip (all my test panels are made of this material).

All the mixes and paints we recommend here can be rolled or sprayed.
 
#6 ·
Thanks for the input ! Mech, in answer to your question, yes i am planning to put the screen on the far wall where the two mis-aligned pictures reside. With that said, i can mount the PJ as far up or as far back as i need to, so what do you guys recommend? Would mounting it closer to get the added fL benefit my setup or should i move it back into a more normal range? Also, i'm in no big rush to get a screen created, so should i wait to hear your results of testing with the gray paint in the eggshell finish or go with another solution?
 
#14 ·
Also, i'm in no big rush to get a screen created, so should i wait to hear your results of testing with the gray paint in the eggshell finish or go with another solution?
If you're not in a hurry to paint your screen hold off a bit; I just got a can of Valspar Ultra Premium interior latex in eggshell finish mixed to match the color "Gildden 'Veil'". This is about the same shade of gray as our BW™ mix and would have similar ambient light absorption as BW™ and the eggshell finish will give it a bit more gain than a flat paint the same color. I'm going to make up a panel of this later in the week to see if it hot spots or not. I don't think it will, but I want to be sure before recommending the paint.

I would still recommend priming and painting the back of the TWH if that is what you use as your screen substrate. Back when I was posting at AVS DIY Screens I mentioned this problem of paint adhesion to the melamine and was simply laughed at by the main poster in that forum. He said the solution to that problem was simple... don't scratch your screen with your fingernails. It isn't "that simple" and I have noticed that several people who painted the white side of TWH have had sections of paint come of when they moved the screen and it bumped against a doorknob or speaker while hanging. While the paint surface may (or may not) have been marred by these actions if these folks had used the BACK of the TWH, it in all likelihood would NOT have literally removed a section of the paint as these people experienced. Melamine is very much like Teflon and very little likes to stick to it with much tenacity. In case you may be wondering, I do have experience with Silver Fire and painting TWH, it was the first DIY screen I ever made. ;)

Spraying will almost always result in a smoother screen finish than rolling if the correct type of spray gun is used, but with care not to leave roller marks, rolling will produce a good screen as well. The reason that the Silver Fire and RS-MaxxMudd mixes (except one) can't be rolled is that they consist mostly of pearlescent mica-based paints and polyurethane. This results in, among other things, a mix that will streak like mad if rolled in a normal fashion.
 
#7 ·
11 feet back is fine, especially considering how bright the room may possibly be. When you get it all set up though, make sure you adjust your white and black levels for both daytime and night time and save them in your pj's presets.

You can see the eggshell finish gray paint in the silver fire comparison thread. :T Since your screen is going on the wall with the pictures, just about anything will do better than sf on that wall assuming you're not planning on moving the couch. I'd go with a neutral gray in an eggshell finish for now - either Sherwin Williams Gray Screen -SW7071- or Glidden Veil. Veil is .5 darker than the Gray screen. The beauty of paint is that if you don't like it, it can be easily changed. :T
 
#8 ·
The furniture in the photos is all going away thankfully as it's the model unit that i'm moving into, so i'm planning to put a 9' wide sectional where the small wood chair is in the first photo (has the diagonal pattern on it) so the main portion of the couch will directly face the wall where the screen is going to be and then there's a small chaise portion that will go down the right side where the current couch is in the photo. Viewing distance would be 11'. I'll start doing my reading on the two basic paints you recommended but would you suggest still rolling these onto the back of the thrifty white board? Thanks
 
#10 ·
Nate, if you're open to "off the wall:bigsmile:/out of the box" ideas, there may be a way to substantially (not completely) counteract your ambient light problem.





Yes, this is out of the ordinary and you have a soffit to deal with, but if you hugged the edge of the soffit and left side of the windows AND turned your track lights 90° it could work.:clap:

Something to think about before you make your final decision.

Rob
 
#11 ·
Very clever solution there Rob! The only issue with that in my situation is there is a door 8' from the far wall which leads to a bedroom so the sectional couch would cover part of the door opening if i arranged the room that way, but thanks for the additional option
 
#12 ·
OK, so i've read up a bunch on the Silver Screen 7071, so my only quesiton at this point is what is the recommended mix to get nowadays? I saw a lot of threads from years back that recommend different base paints from the more recent threads that are on here... PPG Grand Distinction eggshell finish is referenced in the recent Silver Fire v2 comparison results thread, so is that the recommended paint i should pick up and then have Sherwin Williams tint it to Silver Screen SW7071? Any other specs i need to ask the paint representative to ensure i get the right stuff? Thanks guys
 
#13 ·
If you go to a Sherwin Williams store get SW-7071 in a Duration brand paint. wbassett swears by the Duration paint so it must be good. And the color name is Gray Screen not Silver Screen. :T I believe Silver Screen is a Behr color. But it's not quite as neutral as Gray Screen. I've always wondered about Sherwin William's Cashmere paint as well. Supposedly it's supposed to level well and do a better job of eliminating roller/brush marks. Keep in mind that you will pay a bit more for these than you would for say a Valspar at Lowes - probably a few dollars more per quart.

PPG Grand Distinction is a paint that I can get at a local Menards store. I think that it may be a Menards only paint so you may not be able to get it. I'd guess that it is a re-badged version of one of the PPG national brands but I cannot say for sure. :scratch:
 
#22 ·
Thanks all for the reply's. I'm going to head to Lowe's this weekend probably and pick everything up. Last questions... is a quart of the Valspar paint going to be enough for a 98" screen? Also, Lowe's stocks 9inch Wooster 3/16" and 1/4" nap rollers... i take it i should go with the 3/16" roller?? Thanks all, i'll be sure to post up my results once i have everything completed.
 
#23 ·
Yep, 32 fl. oz. is plenty for your screen. :T

As a general rule-of-thumb I like to plan on 1 fl. oz. of paint per square-foot of screen. Your screen works out to 28.333 sq/ft so a quart should do nicely.

Yes, get as short a nap roller as you can find, but no foam rollers (they introduce air into the paint that makes bubbles).
 
#26 ·
Actually Rob I'm glad to hear about this "mistake". Since we have been experimenting with the eggshell and satin finish paints I have thought that both BW™ and C&S™ could get a small boost by increasing the gloss level just a small amount by using an eggshell base, I just haven't had the time to try it out.

FYI, the new C&S™ Ultra is 50% satin paint (the BASICS Silver), so the combination of that with the flat enamel house paint results in an "eggshell-like" finish.
 
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