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Best paint mix for on-wall projection with Epson PowerLite 8350?

49K views 37 replies 9 participants last post by  jrbrook76 
#1 ·
I'd like to get some advice from the DIY screen folks here. I'm building a home theatre. I've got the audio handled (the acoustics worked out, panels and speakers all set, etc.) No problems there. But now it's time to work on the video side of things, and I've got a few questions.

My projector is a Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 8350. It will be positioned 10.5 ft from the wall onto which it will project.

The maximum viewable portion of the wall is 85" x 145" (obviously I will probably not project onto that entire area.)

The room can be in total darkness as required, so ambient light will never be an issue.

Prior to painting, some drywall repair will be done (to remove two sockets and one patch of previous damage), so if needs be I can get any other defects mended.

Given all of the above, what paint would you recommend for said wall? I will be hiring a contractor for this (have used him before and can trust him to follow exact directions), so I'm hoping that the mixing/application process can be boiled down to clear instructions (I'm afraid I can't just point him at the forums and say "go read that for a few days." ;))

Mixes, ready-made solutions, what would you'd recommend?

Thanks!
-Rob

P.S. Please let me know if I forgot any important details!
 
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#2 ·
Hey Rob, welcome to the forum! :wave:

You forgot to tell us one of the most important aspects of your home theater and that is the color and lightness of the walls, ceiling and floor. If the walls and ceiling (and to a more limited extent the floor) are white or a light color (any color) you can have ambient light problems even with no other lights on in the room when viewing except the PJ since the light from the screen will reflect off those surfaces and back onto the screen causing a loss of image contrast and color depth. The closer the walls and ceiling are to the edges of your screen area the more bounce-back you will have.

From a quick look at the projection calculator at projector central it seems that the largest image size you can have with the 8350 mounted 10 1/2 feet from the wall is 108" (53" x 94") diagonal assuming a 16:9 aspect ratio. This is well within your stipulated 85" x 145" wall area.

The good news is that you have a bright PJ which will be producing an image brightness of at least 29 fL (normal recommended image brightness is 16 fL). This allows you some room to potentially compensate for lighter color room surfaces by using a gray screen. More good news is that at these fL levels you don't have to use a reflectively enhanced screen mix and can use a regular OTS (off-the-shelf) paint in either a white or a gray. We can make more detailed paint choices after we know the approximate lightness of your HT room surfaces.
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the prompt response.

Right, so colors. The walls are a medium gray (probably around #BBBBBB so). The ceiling is off-white on the side of gray (#EFEFEF-ish). Carpet is roughly (*very* roughly) #996600.

Now depending on how the acoustics work out I might end up covering the side walls in acoustic tiling. If that's the case, then expect dark grey/black for all the walls. I wish I could say for certain whether or not I'll be putting them up, but I haven't had enough free time in the evenings to finish figuring that stuff out. (I've been spending all my evenings with CARA, a tape measure, and mics...)
 
#5 ·
#BBBBBB is N7.5 on the Munsell Gray Scale. You could paint your screen area with Valspar Ultra Premium interior latex in eggshell finish that has been tinted to match Glidden Master Palette 'Veil' and get a nice screen extremely close to this same color. You probably don't need to go this dark if you aren't going to have any lights on during viewing so a lighter gray would be the same paint tinted to match Behr 'Silver Screen' which is #CFCFCF (N8.3).

I'm a little confused about the projection size figures you posted. While I was able to reproduce the figures via the tool you linked to, the spec. sheet for the 8350 seems to indicate that I can do a lot bigger even at 10.5'. Am I missing something?
Here is what I am getting (except the size is now 107" diag., must be round-off error :dontknow:):




Edit: Ok, after playing with the calculator a bit more, and after re-doing some measurements, it looks like with the maximum throw distance the room will allow me (a hair under 11.5') the absolute biggest the calculator says I can do is 117" diagonal (57 x 102"). That still gives me 25 fL. Dunno if that changes anything...
With the larger screen and dimmer image I would now recommend the Valspar Ultra Premium interior latex in eggshell finish tinted to match Behr 'Silver Screen' as the darkest gray to use to get the most image contrast and color depth and for a lighter gray use the same paint tinted to match Glidden Master Palette 'Snowfield' (#DDDDDD / N8.8) if you prefer image brightness instead of image contrast and color depth.

In either case which paint to use comes down to user preference. The darker gray screen will have richer, deeper colors and more image contrast at the cost of overall image brightness. The Lighter gray screen will be the inverse having a overall brighter image at the cost of lower image contrast and more faded colors. There will not be a day-and-night difference between them though.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I'm a little confused about the projection size figures you posted. While I was able to reproduce the figures via the tool you linked to, the spec. sheet for the 8350 seems to indicate that I can do a lot bigger even at 10.5'. Am I missing something?

Edit: Ok, after playing with the calculator a bit more, and after re-doing some measurements, it looks like with the maximum throw distance the room will allow me (a hair under 11.5') the absolute biggest the calculator says I can do is 117" diagonal (57 x 102"). That still gives me 25 fL. Dunno if that changes anything...
 
#6 ·
Thanks for the recommendations.

I did a bit of review-reading, and I'm a little concerned by a number of negative reviews about the Valsper paint that you mentioned. It seems that some folks have trouble with the paint peeling when it's been applied on top of existing paint!

Do you have any other recommendations? I'm more a fan of the "higher contrast, deeper blacks" approach, since the room will be completely blacked out during viewing and I don't think I'll need maximum brightness.

Thanks!
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the recommendations.

I did a bit of review-reading, and I'm a little concerned by a number of negative reviews about the Valsper paint that you mentioned. It seems that some folks have trouble with the paint peeling when it's been applied on top of existing paint!
I believe I saw those negative reviews and while I won't say it could never happen, I have never, first-hand, heard of a case where Valspar Ultra Premium has peeled. My guess would be that those that had that problem painted directly over a glossy or semi-gloss paint, or perhaps even over a plastic laminate of some kind, without priming first. Primer isn't paint even though it looks like it; the primary purpose of a primer is to seal whatever is being primed and to provide a "grippy" surface for regular paint to stick to.

You should be able to use the colors I recommended to you in other brands of paint as well, just choose one you like. :T If using other brands of paint I would stick with a flat or matte finish paint. I would not recommend using the Behr ULTRA paint (a friend of mine DID have a peeling problem with it) unless that is all that is available to you.

Do you have any other recommendations? I'm more a fan of the "higher contrast, deeper blacks" approach, since the room will be completely blacked out during viewing and I don't think I'll need maximum brightness.

Thanks!
I think the Behr 'Silver Screen' is a good color choice for you (Glidden 'Universal Gray' would also work, it's about the same shade). The darkest I would go is the N7.5 Glidden 'Veil', but you really shouldn't need that unless you have ambient light.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Right, so Behr Silver Screen. Should I mix it with anything (and if so, in what proportions?) or just use it as is?

Also, what about Black Widow? Is it suitable for covering a whole wall? The comparison pictures made it look quite nice indeed!

I figured on having the painter use a sprayer to get the smoothest finish possible -- does that change anything?

Thanks!
 
#9 ·
Right, so Behr Silver Screen. Should I mix it with anything (and if so, in what proportions?) or just use it as is?
Just use it as-is. The only reason to add anything to a neutral gray paint is to increase the gain of the mix to make up for either an under-powered PJ or a screen size that is really too big for the PJ being used. You're HT doesn't fit in either of those categories.

Also, what about Black Widow? Is it suitable for covering a whole wall? The comparison pictures made it look quite nice indeed!
Black Widow™ is a great screen mix, but it was designed back when many PJ's had considerably less lumens than they do today. You could use it rather than a simple neutral gray paint, but you don't need to since you have plenty of image brightness.

The thing about reflectively enhanced screens, DIY or commercial, is that the same ingredients that boost screen gain also have some negative effects as well. Whenever you put what are in essence little tiny mirrors into a paint it is possible that if the projected image is too bright the image can appear to be grainy. We have only had a few (2 or 3) people complain of that when using BW™ and I believe we traced the problem down to excessive image brightness.

I figured on having the painter use a sprayer to get the smoothest finish possible -- does that change anything?

Thanks!
Not that I can think of.
 
#10 ·
The only reason I asked about Black Widow was since the projector will be at the upper end of its zoom range (so as to get the maximum screen size that I can for the throw that I've got), and I figured that might help make up for it.

I think it came out to 23 fL in the worst case -- but that's assuming that I run the projector at its full brightness. I figure that with Eco Mode (or whatever it's called) I might end up lower than that, hence the need for an enhanced paint like Black Widow.

But hey, if you say Silver Screen is good that's good enough for me. You guys know way more about this than I will ever likely know! (Plus, I'm not averse to getting the wall re-painted if it turns out not to be satisfactory...)

Thanks again!
 
#11 ·
With your PJ mounted at 11.5' and going with a 117-118" screen means your lens is wide open and the only adjustment is zooming the lens to get a smaller and brighter image. However, I manually calculated image brightness levels instead of going with the PJC Calc figures and if you use Eco mode and Cinema mode that will drop you down to about 10.5 fL (preferred viewing range is 12 to 16 fL). The PJC Calc seems to be based on using the bright lamp setting and Living Room mode with the 8350. They say colors are very good in this mode. BTW going from full lamp to Eco mode drops brightness 22%.

'Silver Screen' will work well if you use Eco and Living Room modes, but if you choose to use Cinema Mode I would recommend going with 'Snowfield'.

Black Widow™ would give you an image brightness comparable to 'Silver Screen', but produce a darker screen that will absorb more ambient light. Since you won't have any (or minimal) ambient light Black Widow™ really isn't the answer for your HT. If you really want to try a reflectively enhanced mix then think about Scorpion™ or C&S™ Ultra.

Plus, I'm not averse to getting the wall re-painted if it turns out not to be satisfactory.
This is great. :T I think painting your screen with an OTS neutral gray paint first will probably work well for you, but it's nice to know that you are willing to repaint if you think the image needs help in one aspect for another.
 
#12 ·
If you think I don't need an enhanced mix, I won't use one. No problem here.

Regarding the different modes, I'm not really to worried about bulb life. I mean... I don't relish replacing a bulb, but I'm getting a spare along with the projector (and they're not too expensive anyways), so I'd much rather deal with a possible replacement than have too dark of an image.

With respect to Snowfield, who makes that paint? I assume that it's a lighter paint than Snow Screen (since you're recommending it for use with the dimmer modes), right?
 
#13 ·
'Silver Screen' is a Behr color and 'Snowfield' is a Glidden color. You should be able to have just about any brand of paint tinted to match those colors, the formulae should be in the stores color-matching computer.

Yea, 'Snowfield' is a slightly lighter gray than 'Silver Screen'. Both of these colors (I had them made in Valspar Ultra Premium at Lowe's) are quite neutral in color which means your screen won't change the color of the image being shot on it by the PJ. Having a truly neutral screen makes it easier to calibrate the PJ properly too.
 
#15 ·
I tend to use Valspar Ultra Premium (for both screen mixes and as a general paint around the house) because I have had a fair amount of experience with it and it has always worked well for me. It is relatively inexpensive and available from a chain (Lowe's) that is very prevalent in my area. Lowe's has the most accurate paint-tinting machines I know of (they can add the different color tints in 1/768th ounce increments). That said, just about any brand of paint should be tintable to match Behr 'Silver Screen' including major brands like Sherwin-Williams, Benjamin Moore, Pratt & Lambert etc.

The only name-brand paint I would recommend against is Behr Premium Plus ULTRA, the older Behr Premium Plus (the stuff that ISN'T advertized as paint and primer in one) has worked fine for me.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Hello everyone. I am a long time reader but decided to join to get an answer to my predicament.

I did not want to create a new thread on the Epson 8350 as there are already two, I hope I am not thread jacking.

I just purchased an Epson 8350 and would like to create my own screen. I built a new wall for the image to be projected onto, so I would like to paint the screen on the wall.

The projector will be mounted to the ceiling with a 4 inch hang. No ceiling obstructions. It will be mounted 11.5-13.5 feet away from said screen. Looking to do a 100" to 108" 16:9 screen

The walls will be a deep gold color with a white ceiling. Floor is carpet, its two tone gold and burgandy

What gray paint should I use. I am new to this so please let me know if I omitted anything necessary info. Thank you.
 
#19 ·
Hi LWest, welcome to the forum! :wave:

You will find a lot of info in the existing 8350 threads and you could pretty much extrapolate your screen needs from that, but never be hesitant to ask questions. :T

With your PJ in Living Room mode and full lamp you would be getting between 24 and 19 fL of image brightness with a 108" screen, the difference being due to PJ mounting distance. Going to the smaller 100" wouldn't make a perceptible difference in image brightness. If you want to use Cinema mode and low lamp your brightness will take a hit and be in the 10 fL range. So a lot depends on what modes you use.

If you would have minimal ambient light in the room during viewing you could use the same paints I recommended to ThinkRob, namely Behr 'Silver Screen' (a ~N8.3 neutral gray) or Glidden 'Snowfield' (a ~N8.5 neutral gray). These are paint COLORS and you could use about any paint brand you like. 'Silver Screen' will give you a bit more contrast and richer colors than 'Snowfield', but it will be a ever so slightly dimmer image than you will get with 'Snowfield'.

If you want to use the dimmer modes on your PJ then I would recommend thinking about using our reflectively enhanced mix called Cream&Sugar™ Ultra. This mix is a N9.2 (almost white), but does offer a bit of image contrast enhancement compared to a true white paint; however, it is designed for no ambient light viewing,
 
#20 ·
Wow! Thanks! That is really helpful. Thank you again. As the OP stated, I am not opposed to having to repaint to get the perfect screen color.

I guess my only question now is, say I would like to view in Living Room mode w/ some ambient light present, should I go with a reflectively enhanced mixture? Or possibly the Black Widow you mentioned above? I'd like to be able to view sports in a low light environment and movies in the dark. How would I be able to make a compromise so that it looks equally good in both lighting enviroinments? Would Silver Screen get me there or is that not even possible?
 
#21 ·
If you're not in a hurry to paint your screen hold off a bit; I just got a can of Valspar Ultra Premium interior latex in eggshell finish mixed to match the color "Gildden 'Veil'". This is about the same shade of gray as our BW™ mix and would have similar ambient light absorption as BW™ and the eggshell finish will give it a bit more gain than a flat paint the same color. I'm going to make up a panel of this later in the week to see if it hot spots or not. I don't think it will, but I want to be sure before recommending the paint.
I also read this from you in another Epson8350 thread. How did this combo work out?
 
#23 ·
Valspar Ultra Premium interior latex in eggshell finish mixed to match the color "Glidden 'Veil'" worked fine. It did not hot spot. This is a safe way to pick up a little bit of added gain. The main problem is that different brands of paint have different gloss levels for what they call an eggshell finish so even though the Valspar Ultra Premium doesn't hot spot a paint like Glidden Premium in eggshell finish would.
 
#28 ·
Hi All,

I'm new to the Epson 8350 also. I was having a LotR EE Blu-ray marathon a couple weeks ago and my 10 year old 65" Mits Rear Projection HDTV died 10 hours in. I'd been thinking about replacing it with a projector anyway so out I went and got the 8350. I've been loving it ever since though I know I can get a better picture with a properly painted wall.

Here are the details of my home theater room. It's 22' long by 12' wide. I've got two windows, but I control the light using blackout fabric. My walls are painted beige, the carpet is a light gray and the drop ceiling is white tiles. My projector is off to the right side on a shelf 4 feet up and 17 feet from the front wall and I have an image that is 125 inches. According to the Projector Calculator this gives me 13fl which I guess is adequate. I've been running the projector in Cinema mode with Eco. I have no problem running it in a different setting without Eco if that will make any difference. Also, I do all movie watching with no lights.

I'm hoping to paint the wall this weekend so any advice on the shade of gray that works best for my situation would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
#29 ·
Welcome to HTS! :wave:

Before you do any painting what is the color of your screen now? What don't you like about the image you are now getting? Don't forget that one of the best things you can do to improve image quality is to calibrate your PJ to the screen in use, it can make a HUGE difference.

Your current image brightness is quite a bit less than the 13 fL the calculator is telling you because it assumes you are using Living Room mode and full-lamp on the 8350. Also, you are about half way through the zoom setting which means you can deduct about another 20% from brightness. Using Cinema and Eco modes gives about 434 lumens, taking another 20% from that gives 347 lumens which means you are getting about 7.5 fL hitting your current 125" screen. If your 8350 is brand new that add back 25% brightness for a new lamp, (8.25 total fL) but my understanding is that that will go away fairly quickly since lamps don't dim linearly.

The fact is that I don't think I could recommend anything but a white screen for you in a simple OTS paint, and you would be a good contender for using our Cream&Sugar™ Ultra mix for a bit of added brightness while actually getting a VERY light gray screen to help with image contrast.

First things first, calibrate that PJ. :T
 
#31 ·
If you are currently using a beige wall as a screen and like the image you are getting then you could use a neutral gray paint that is the same reflectance as the beige. The problem is finding that reflectance value. Do you know what brand and color code the beige paint is? If you have any of that paint left over and could dab some of it on a small piece of cardboard (about 1 inch square), or a piece of drop cloth or other small item that has the paint on it, you could mail it to me and I could tell you more about the color than you really want to know. ;)

All the talk of image brightness truly is subjective, if the image looks good to you then don't mess around trying to measure up to what someone else says it should be. Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder.

If you want to try a white screen about any white paint will do, but using Valspar Ultra Premium in eggshell finish from Lowe's would give you a bit of additional gain without hot spotting.

You could try the same paint and finish tinted to match Glidden 'Snowfield' to get a light gray screen.

The S&M calibration disc is highly spoken of, but you could do a reasonable brightness and contrast calibration by simply using the THX Optimizer found on many DVD's. I wouldn't bother trying to calibrate to the beige wall.
 
#32 ·
Unfortunately the room was painted 15 years ago so I no longer have the paint or any idea of brand/color code. I do believe it was an eggshell finish though. Thanks for the offer to analyze it :)

I'll do some thinking about the white or Snowfield. Either way should I prime the wall first? Is one coat enough or is two better? Also, any particular roller type/style make a difference or is pretty much any one good enough? Thanks for your help!
 
#34 · (Edited)
Mr harpmaker sir please help me ! ( terribly sorry for resurrecting a very very old thread) I am soon going to be a 8350 owner and I am painting a wall in my room. Now I recently bought the paint I read on here the valspar premium interior eggshell white color matched to veil by glidden I am wondering if my decision was premature because I am hoping for a very large screen so I am wondering if you can tell me if I need a darker shade of gray based on my measurements and wants. I am going to be projecting on my wall in my room and the wall measures 11 feet and half inch by 6ft 9 inches. Along the bottom 11and a half inch part of the wall is a 4.5 inch baseboard/trim. My goal was to use the entire wall corner to corner screen size. The projector is gonna be hooked up to HTPC is this something i can actually do? corner to corner screen? or should my screen but slightly smaller to adhere to 16:9 standards? I wanna utilize every mm of the wall i can for screen but not without adhering to proper 16:9 for media and game playing. Thanks for your time and suggestions. my sitting distance is going to be about 14 feet away. The projector is expected to be mounted maybe a few feet behind that?. Room has no windows and will be pitch black. I will be painting the wall with valpar premium interior egg white paint mixed to veil color by glidden as others have suggested. The Room is 22 feet and 3 and a half inches long and 11 and a half inch wide. I could probably spin my bed and make my sitting distance further if need be. So based on the screen size I am hoping for should I get my paint to a darker grey ?
 
#35 ·
I am sure that Don will help you, but if i may...

Take a look at the post 29.

Are you talking for a +150'' screen with 8350 using ''Veil''??

No, my friend...is way too dark for that projector. You need the whitest white you can find and and still you 'll have a dim image. Your screen that planning to get is way too big for 8350's ''horsepower''.
 
#37 ·
Hi bradtn, Welcome to HTS! :wave:

I think the 'Veil' color is going to be too dark a gray for you. It might work if ALL the walls and ceiling of your room are very dark colors, but even then as the lamp ages you will eventually have less than 10 fL of image brightness which many people think isn't bright enough for a good picture.

The 8350 does have pretty good image quality in Living Room mode and using full lamp (which generates the 13 fL given my the projectorcentral calculator), but I would go with a lighter gray in the Valspar eggshell paint and have it tinted to Glidden 'Snowfield'. This is a very, very light gray paint, but it will help a bit in boosting the black levels and perceived contrast of your projected image compared to a white screen. If after trying the 'Snowfield' gray you think you could go with a deeper gray you could always mix the 'Snowfield' (an N9 gray) and 'Veil' (and N7.5 gray) together which would give you an approximate N8 gray.

Using your dimensions I'm getting you having a 151" 16:9 diagonal screen. That's a big screen!
 
#38 ·
Considering how easy it is to buy a sample of Behr Silverscreen for $3, and a simple piece of posterboard...just take a chance and try it. Along with samples of a few other solutions. :wave:You'll know if you like it or not. Other people can tell you yes, no, this, that. Just try it. Yours is the only opinion that should matter to you. :)
 
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