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Question about Sherwin-Williams "Unique Gray" I'm using for my screen...

24K views 31 replies 7 participants last post by  traderbbc 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi all --

I'm working on a 92" DIY screen to pair with my Mitsubishi HC3800 projector in my soon-to-be-up-and-running home theater, and thanks to some terrific help I've received here from mechman and harpmaker, I decided to paint the screen an off-the-shelf neutral gray.

I am painting the back side of a piece of "Thrifty White" (white melamine hard board) -- the non-melamine, brown side. I mounted the screen on the wall, and began painting it today using a Graco HV2900 sprayer. I first sprayed two coats of Kilz2 primer, and then this evening, when I opened the can of Sherwin-Williams ProClassic Acrylic Latex Enamel paint that was suggested to me here, tinted "Unique Gray" (SW 6260), I was surprised at how "white" this paint is -- I was expecting a much "grayer-looking" paint. In fact, it was white enough that, when spraying it onto the screen substrate (which already had the Kilz2 painted on it), the color of the paint and that of the background primer were similar enough that it was a bit hard to differentiate where I had sprayed the "Unique Gray", and where I hadn't. This is NOT an issue for me per se; the only reason I'm asking is to be sure that the guy at Sherwin-Williams didn't mis-tint my paint. For those of you familiar with it, is Unique Gray indeed a very, very light (almost whitish) gray? If so, then I'm good to go. The screen is looking good after the two primer coats and first coat of paint.

By the way, how many coats of Unique Gray should I use? I am spraying them fairly thin; not a "dusting" coat, but light enough so as to not get any runs. I'm planning on about three coats -- is this about right?

Thanks,

Steve
 
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#3 ·
yiannis -- yeah, that's what I thought...I had looked at those color swatches before I bought the paint several weeks ago, and that's why I was pretty surprised when I opened the container. The color I saw was NOT the color I expected. Still, if the Kilz2 is actually a "grayish" primer, and not a nice "white" as it appears to be, then that could be part of why I'm not seeing too much of a difference between my paint and the underlying primer. But, again, it didn't even look gray in the CAN.

Perhaps I should take the remnants of my paint quart back to Sherwin-Williams today, and ask them to mix me up a new batch. Hopefully, if they made a mistake, they'll mix me a new one (and not try to give me some line about how me thinning it with water for use in my sprayer is the problem; obviously, that's not the issue -- and I can vouch for the fact that it did not look any less white BEFORE I thinned it...)

This brings up an interesting issue...how DOES one know if the person mixing your paint does it properly, such that the color you end up with is what you paid for? I guess if you were buying a gallon of paint for your home, to "touch up" walls and such, you would quickly see if the color they mixed you was "off" from what you initially painted on, but in my case, I have no way of knowing for sure. Perhaps the color I have ended up with would do an OK job as a screen, but I was counting on the performance of Unique Gray, and so I think I'll take the remains of my quart back and see what they tell me...

Steve
 
#5 ·
If you look at the swatch that Yiannis posted, available here, Unique Gray is the third color in from the left (counting the white square with the '38' in it). Kilz2 would be fairly close to that first square with the 38 in it.

It wouldn't be the first time that a counter person screwed up. It happens. But you rarely hear of it from an actual paint store. Usually it's from Home Depot or Lowe's.
 
#4 ·
There should be a visible difference between the Kilz2 and the Unique Gray. The RGB numbers that I dug up for Kilz2 was 234 237 234. That's pretty much white in the paint world.

As for the number of coats, I'd do at least 6. I've always found that 3 is never quite enough.
 
#6 ·
Mechman --

You have confirmed my suspicions, with the info you gave about Kilz2. As you state that it's essentially "white," then I can guarantee that my "Unique Gray" is way off, color-wise.

Looking at the swatch from yiannis, the color I'm now spraying is actually much lighter than the SECOND color from the left (let alone the third -- which is what mine should be). It is somewhere between the "white," and the second color on the swatch -- i.e. WAY whiter than it should be.

Yes, I'm surprised they screwed it up at Sherwin-Williams, also -- ESPECIALLY since it is one of their colors using one of their base paints. I wasn't sure I trusted the guy who mixed it; he seemed new; when I asked him for "B20" base paint (which is the ProClassic Interior Acrylic Enamel, Satin), he had no idea what I was talking about...

Hopefully they'll mix me a new quart without any hassle.

So, six coats you think? I am assuming that you mean six coats of paint (not counting the two primer coats), right? Any rule of thumb on how long to wait between coats? Just until it "looks" dry (seems to take about a half hour or 45 minutes), or should I wait longer, say 1-2 hours?

Thanks,

Steve
 
#7 ·
So, six coats you think? I am assuming that you mean six coats of paint (not counting the two primer coats), right? Any rule of thumb on how long to wait between coats? Just until it "looks" dry (seems to take about a half hour or 45 minutes), or should I wait longer, say 1-2 hours?
Yes six sprayed coats. That's probably close to the equivalent of two rolled coats. As for the drying time, a sprayed coat usually dries pretty quickly - somewhere around a half hour or so.
 
#12 · (Edited)
smokars -- I THINK I have enough lumens...the experts here recommended the Unique Gray, after seeing my projector and room specs.

OK -- I went to SW and the paint is correct. Here's the deal...the paint, when WET, is very light -- relatively white. It dries MUCH darker. The guy tested my paint at SW; he put some of my paint on half of a white card, and left the other half of the card white. He then put it under a dryer and waited for it to dry. Once the paint on the card was dry, he then placed card next to a Unique Gray sample strip in the store (the kind you take home when you are paint shopping), and showed it to me. My paint, now dry, was a match with the color on the sample strip! BEFORE it was dry, though, it was not that much darker in tone than the white card he painted it on. Check out this picture I took once I got home...



Notice the white card, half showing the white, and half showing the dried "Unique Gray" paint, and then notice the lid to my paint can, with the still-wet Unique Gray. That is why I was confused...

Note to anyone using Unique Gray -- it will DRY much darker than it is when wet!

Thanks, all...

Steve
 
#14 · (Edited)
Sure thing, Mech, and thank you for what you do here. Thanks to the advice and education I've received here, I now have an AWESOME-looking screen; can't wait to project my first images onto it (probably this weekend, if I can get my projector mounted).

Incidentally, I'm REALLY worried about getting that last step done right...these DLP units, without any "variable lens shift" ability, mean you have to be REALLY precise, both vertically and horizontally, and I'm not looking forward to having to do that...!

Steve
 
#16 · (Edited)
Well, Don, I ended up spraying six coats, as you two suggest. It looks great. The only issue -- and it's a very minor one -- is that with the lights off, and just the low ambient light in the room, if you stand at just the right angle from the screen so that the ambient light illuminates/reflects off of the screen JUST RIGHT, you can barely tell that there are some hints which reveal that I sprayed my last coat with vertical passes of the sprayer. Apparently, my "overlap" was not perfect, so the last coat went on heavier in some spots and lighter in others, in vertically-oriented strips. I tried to "dust" that last coat -- and didn't worry that much about coverage; I didn't think coverage was all that big of a deal on that last coat given the five coats underneath, and thus I may not have been as careful to make that last coat perfectly uniform in terms of my overlap. However, I may have been wrong in this assumption, since if you try hard enough, you can move to a position where you can see those "hints" that my coverage was a bit uneven. BUT, with the lights in the room turned on, illuminating the screen, you can't tell it at all. It looks perfect. So, I am thinking that when the light of an image gets projected onto the screen, there will be no hints visible. I should have the projector up and running this weekend; if indeed those subtle vertical "stripes" would somehow turn out to be slightly visible, I do still have some paint left and can do one more coat, being more careful not to "dust" it on, but instead to pay close attention to getting consistent coverage.

ANYWAY, thanks for your advice! It's interesting that the Kilz2 is roughly 9.2; you can see from my picture though that even compared to a presumably whiter color (that card that the SW guy painted my Unique Gray onto), that the wet Unique Gray on my paint lid is definitely in the middle, color-wise, between the white part of the card, and the dried Unique Gray part of the card. The wet pain MAY even be closer to the white than the dried Unique Gray, in terms of shade. Anyway, it's all moot now, as it has dried the proper color.

THANKS again!

Steve
 
#18 ·
ALMfamily --

Sure thing, glad it was helpful to you. I'll definitely re-post to this thread after this weekend to report if there were any "flaws" evident in the projected image. I really feel like there won't be, as it is SUPER subtle, but we shall see...

Steve
 
#19 ·
In all honesty Steve, the notion of "duster" coats pushed so hard on another forum is one of the worst things to happen to DIY screen painters everywhere. There is simply no need for such nonsense if the screen paint was developed properly. That technique was promoted primarily to reduce hot spotting of their mixes by having the paint droplets be almost dry when they hit the screen thus lowering the effective gloss of the mix.

Also remember that the last coat of paint on a screen is literally the top coat and thus the coat of paint that light interacts with the most so it is really the most important coat.
 
#20 ·
Don --

I didn't know that about the "dusting" thing...good to know! :)

As for that "top coat" being most important, yeah, makes total sense. I simply didn't think there would be ANY "texture" show up, with the other five coats underneath. I surprised...but don't think it will be an issue at all. Like I say, if it is, I have enough paint left for another coat! :)

Take care,

Steve
 
#21 ·
An update to my screen issues...

It turned out that the "vertical striping" was indeed fairly visible -- showing up as streaks of hot-spotting. So, this morning, I re-painted the screen using a small foam roller. It turned out good; no more vertical striping is evident and the paint job turned out nice.

I'm still getting some hot-spotting, though. Hopefully as the paint dries more, that will diminish; I was projecting the image onto the newly painted screen less than an hour after painting (though it did "look" dry).

One other issue I'm having is that DESPITE the hot spotting, my projector's image does not appear bright enough -- even with the room TOTALLY dark. I cannot run in "low cinema" lamp mode; I have to run in standard mode just to get it marginally bright enough. Strangely, I thought maybe I could help things out by adjusting some settings, and so put in the Disney WOW calibration disk. Doing so, I discovered a problem (which may be the issue). I found out that the brightness and contrast (black and white level) adjustments are NOT working properly. Adjusting the contrast (white level) on my projector, from -30 to +30, and looking at the calibration "test patterns," I could see ZERO visible difference in the picture as I ran from -30 to +30. Meanwhile, adjusting the brightness (black level) did alter the image, when running from -30 to 0, but when continuing to adjust from 0 to +30, it makes ZERO change to the picture, above the zero mark. I am thinking this is my issue, so it looks like I'll be sending my projector back in... :foottap::foottap:

Meanwhile, IF the visible hot-spotting does not diminish as the paint fully dries, do I have any options?

Steve
 
#23 ·
Yiannis -- I appreciate the suggestion.

I will re-try, during a movie, as opposed to during the Disney WOW, as you suggest.

I know there is an issue of SOME kind; the picture is WAY too "dim." However, to verify that this is at least part of the issue, I'll check the contrast and brightness controls during a paused movie scene, and let you know.

Steve
 
#24 ·
I know there is an issue of SOME kind; the picture is WAY too "dim." However, to verify that this is at least part of the issue, I'll check the contrast and brightness controls during a paused movie scene, and let you know.

Steve
How many hours do you have on the lamp?

You consider way too dim the image you are looking now because you are compairing it with your previous one white screen?

If so, nothing sounds strange here. Using Unique Gray paint you get ~35% less light. The only thing is to consider if your lumens are bright enough for the job. Let's see...

Your pj outputs 1300 lumens. Let's say that you are using actually in cinema mode (for instance, or in low mode lamp) 700. Your screen is 2,31 square meters. Therefore:

700:2,31= 303 lux : 10,76 = 28,16 FL - 35% = 18,31 FL!!!!

I hardly can call that a dim image...i wish i had so much light!!!
 
#25 · (Edited)
Yiannis -- first off, I said it backwards in my post...the contrast will adjust from -30 to 0, but not 0 to +30. But, it's the BRIGHTNESS (black level) that does not change the picture at all, anywhere during adjustment from -30 to +30.

To answer your questions, my lamp has roughly 50 hours on it, and I was not using a white screen before. This is my first projector, and first screen, so it's not a matter of me thinking this is a dark image, as compared to "what I was used to." I have no "white screen" reference point, as I have never owned a white screen.

Anyway, I did what you said, and paused an image in a movie, and verified it...there is NO black level adjustment occurring when you move the Brightness level up or down using the remote. Zero difference whatsoever...-30 Brightness looks EXACTLY THE SAME as +30 Brightness (and every number in between, as well). No matter what the numbers say, there is actually no Brightness adjustment occurring. So, THAT is why my image looks "dark," I'm almost sure of it. My black level is way too high, and I can't turn it down -- the brightness adjustment is broken. So, the problem is NOT my amount of fL. It is the "black level" of the projected image.

I guess I'll be contacting the place I bought it, on Monday. Hopefully, they will send me a new one, and allow me to return this one when I receive the new one (so as to not have to go without a projector for any period of time).

Meanwhile, I do have hot-spotting issues. It appears that the Sherwin-Williams ProClassic in satin sheen is too "glossy" of a sheen, for my projector, mounted at roughly 13'. Apparently, I'm going to have to go with a flat paint -- unless there is something I can apply as a "top coat" which will dull down the sheen. Any suggestions as to what I should do? If I do have to paint it again, any suggestions on a neutral gray, on par with Unique Gray, that I can have mixed in a flat base? Or is this not the right solution?

Steve
 
#27 ·
Meanwhile, I do have hot-spotting issues. It appears that the Sherwin-Williams ProClassic in satin sheen is too "glossy" of a sheen, for my projector, mounted at roughly 13'. Apparently, I'm going to have to go with a flat paint -- unless there is something I can apply as a "top coat" which will dull down the sheen. Any suggestions as to what I should do? If I do have to paint it again, any suggestions on a neutral gray, on par with Unique Gray, that I can have mixed in a flat base? Or is this not the right solution?

Steve
Wow, sorry to hear you are having PJ issues. I hope you can get them resolved.

As for the ProClassic screen hot spotting, this is the first we have heard of that using the 'Unique Gray' color. One thing to check is to see if the screen is hot spotting or if it's the PJ. If the screen is causing the hot spot the spot will move around on the screen as you change viewing angle and position. If the PJ is the source of hot spotting then the spot will stay stationary as your viewing angle and position change.

If it's really the paint causing the hot spotting then the only thing to do is to paint on another coat using a flat or matte finish paint. Since ProClassic isn't available in flat or matte finish I would suggest using Sherwin-Williams Duration in matte finish in 'Unique Gray', I've heard good things about that paint as well.

Technically, you could sand the surface of the screen to reduce the gloss, but it is very hard to get an evenly reflective screen this way; most of the time you end up with a screen with uneven texture and gloss.
 
#29 ·
Yiannis -- I'll check, but I also send DirecTV signal to the projector, and DirecTV content is equally dark, so I'm pretty sure it's the projector.

Don --

Yes, the hot spot moves as you move seating position, so it sounds like it is indeed the screen. It is fairly pronounced; you can't see it when the content is dark, or many colors on the screen at once, but on a consistent light color (looking at the grass of a football field, or a sky scene, things like that), it is a very obvious hot spot -- about 18" in diameter.

So, Sherwin-Williams Duration, Unique Gray, matte finish...I'll give it a shot. You think matte, and not flat? Can I expect the Unique Gray, mixed in this paint type, to be similarly neutral as the Unique Gray mixed in the ProClassic base?

Steve
 
#30 ·
Don --

Yes, the hot spot moves as you move seating position, so it sounds like it is indeed the screen. It is fairly pronounced; you can't see it when the content is dark, or many colors on the screen at once, but on a consistent light color (looking at the grass of a football field, or a sky scene, things like that), it is a very obvious hot spot -- about 18" in diameter.
That is a conundrum, I've hit my ProClassic 'Unique Gray' panel with 27 fL and didn't see any hot spotting. Is there any chance the store gave you semi-gloss rather than satin?

So, Sherwin-Williams Duration, Unique Gray, matte finish...I'll give it a shot. You think matte, and not flat? Can I expect the Unique Gray, mixed in this paint type, to be similarly neutral as the Unique Gray mixed in the ProClassic base?

Steve
The Duration paint isn't made in flat, the matte finish is very low sheen though. To be on the safe side you could also get 'Unique Gray' in Sherwin-Williams Superpaint which does have a flat finish.

Yes, 'Unique Gray' should be the same neutral color in all the SW paints.
 
#31 ·
Don -- the paint can SAYS satin, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have been mis-labeled. I will say this, though, it's definitely obvious. I even switched to low-lamp mode, and it's still there. Not quite as bright of a hot-spot, but still visible. It's so strange that -- due to my inability to adjust down my black level, I have a very "dark" image, and yet, when viewing a very light scene, seeing pronounced hot-spotting. A "dark-looking" picture, but with hot-spotting! Bizarre!

Given that you say there have been no reports of hot-spotting with the SW ProClassic satin, now it's got me wondering if, when I get the new projector and can actually adjust to the proper black level, if my image is going to be TOO bright! I'm not sure what I'd do in that case... :) Presumably, once my bulb is not brand-new, that would decrease to some degree, and the new "matte-finish" screen should solve the issue, but still. I guess we shall see. I'll report back with what I find.

THANKS again for your help!

Steve
 
#32 ·
Steve my screen is painted the unique gray did it about a year ago and hot spotting has never been an issue but the classic did have a couple of numbers if I remember but I did use the satin. I have done my room over since wife let me paint the trey ceilings a dark brown, had a small amount of light in a window in that room but there is a deck over it so not much. Again when I did it over I covered those windows with some cheap black blackout curtains which she agreed to so there is virtually no light in that room anymore.

My projector has 1200 hundred hours on it now and I will tell you that the unique grey now is a darker screen then I would prefer so as they guys and gals have said the bulb hours make a difference. I have an epson 8350, I was satisfied a year ago but can't blame the paint cause I made changes in the room but now I am wanting a brighter screen and going over to the C&S thread to ask Harp some questions. I rolled mine with 2 coats which one thing about that paint it covers very well. I have also learned on doing my 5th screen the 1/4 roller seems to work out better than the 3/16 it just lays more paint down and 2 coats is good can't say the 3/16 with 2 coats is good.

Just wanted to give u some input.
 
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