4" full range Speakers

[BoomieMCT]

So I needed a set of speakers for my living room. Because the only place the fiancee' would allow them is near the ceiling in a corner I've always had problems with mid and high range smear off the ceiling. I decided a small set of full range speakers built as low as possible would reduce this effect as much as possible. I did allow enough room to put a front port on the design. Rear ports in this room and location have not worked out well. . . .

After doing some research I decided to use the Tang Band W4-656SC 4" shielded driver because the specs matched what I needed and I had read some good reviews of people who used them. Most importantly was the review that said they didn't really need a notch filter or much tuning. This is a really neat looking driver with a semi-transparent bronze colored cone. The motor assembly is satifyingly *huge* too.

Another thing I played around with on these set of speakers was finishing. I had had problems getting the corners of my MDF nice and smooth after painting. A friend recommended Zinser Bin as a primer. Because it is shelac based it plugs up the little holes in the MDF and keeps it from drinking up all my paint coat after coat. I'm pretty happy with the "hammered metal" Rustolium I used - with the bronze colored cones I think it also rocks.

[BoomieMCT]

I guess the next question is "how do these sound"? I like the sound very much. These have impressive bass for 4" speakers. The sound is very laid back - kind of like most transmission line speakers I've heard. I would like a little more mid-bass punch, but for $20 full range speakers they rock! Mated with my X-sub there isn't much music they can't deliver adequately.

I will mention here that the amp powering them is a vintage 30 watt per channel PsAudio number 2 - tiny by today's standards. I can hear them all over the main floor of my Cape Cod style house without problems. They do a good job providing ambiance for parties. I wouldn't say they would do a driving techno dance party. These drivers are rated to 45 watts RMS which is much less then even most bookshelf speakers. Caveat emptor.

I have included a frequency plot taken in my office. The acoustics in that room are sub-optimal so very large grains of salt need to be taken when reading that plot. It shows the FR dropping off at about 9000 Hz. Test tones taken in my living room tell a different story. I guess that's what you get with a Rat Shack SPL meter going into a Mac G4's horrible sound card. Someday I may start testing in my treated theater room but right now that would be a PITA.

[Sonnie]

Nice work... those are just plum cute.

[BoomieMCT]

Sonnie wrote:

Nice work... those are just plum cute.

Thanks! They aren't *quite* micro speakers - they measure 8x8x9.5" - but they are still in the "cute" category I guess.

[Prof.]

Nice job on the cabinets..they look really good..Good idea with the spikes as well..

I had a set of Krix speakers ( Oz make) that used 4" mid/ bass speakers in a vented cabinet and it amazed me just how big that little speaker sounded..

You don't always need " big" to get some nice clean sound..

[BoomieMCT]

Prof. wrote:

Nice job on the cabinets..they look really good..Good idea with the spikes as well..

I had a set of Krix speakers ( Oz make) that used 4" mid/ bass speakers in a vented cabinet and it amazed me just how big that little speaker sounded..

You don't always need " big" to get some nice clean sound..

I agree! I've never really been happy with micro-satellite systems. They just sound too small and too tinny. These really were my experiment to see if small but not *micro* speakers could sould suitable full-range. I also was tired of mucking around with crossovers - this system's lack of any crossover is refreshing! In their location they don't even need baffle step compensation.

My next experiment in this direction would be finding an inexpensive driver that does the same thing but has better power handling - 45 watts just won't cut it for most modern systems. Maybe a mini-array of four of these guys?

That's a nice looking speaker and the performance looks good for a small box. Can you post some details on the size of the port?

I want to build set of bookshelf speakers for my family room. I have a 5.1 surround sound system that I use for watching movies. This would be a good speaker for this type of application.

Best regards,
Randy

[BoomieMCT]

rf17830 wrote:

That's a nice looking speaker and the performance looks good for a small box. Can you post some details on the size of the port?

Construction is simple. The enclosure is four 8" x 8" pieces and the front and back is two 8" x 9.5" (I think that is the size). I used 3/4" MDF.

The port is slightly undersized but that allows it to fit the enclosure more easily. That being said I never noticed port noise. Anyway, I used these 1 3/8" adjustable ports from PE. They are super easy to attach and mount much like the driver. They also look cool. I didn't need the movable sleeve so I just pulled it off. By my calculations with Unibox I'd need to cut about 1/2" off the remaining tube but after testing I like the sound as is so I did no cuts and have no complaints. I think the final length was 4 1/4".

There is a small (1-2 handfulls) amount of Acoustafill in there. I tested this with heavy and no fill as well and really prefer it on the lighter side.

rf17830 wrote:

I want to build set of bookshelf speakers for my family room. I have a 5.1 surround sound system that I use for watching movies. This would be a good speaker for this type of application.

Best regards,
Randy

I use mine in two channel and they perform well. I must emphasize again that these drivers are rated to a maximum RMS of 45 watts. Two fill my living room just fine but make sure they don't get overdriven! That being said, these blow away all micro satellite systems I've ever heard. You could cross these with a sub at 80-100 Hz and be quite happy.

[BoomieMCT]

I tested one of these speakers with no BSC, a 1.5 mH inductor and a 8 ohm resistor and the same inductor with a 20 ohm resistor.

Red = no BSC
Purple = 1.5 mH and 8 ohms
Yellow = 1.5 mH and 20 ohms

How can I fix that rise at the end? I find it odd that it is there as these speakers do not sound bright at all. I've had issues with my testing setup and high freqencies - I suppose that could be an artifact of that problem.

[BoomieMCT]

Now that I have a decent mike, here is the response I've been getting. Not perfect by any means but they are adapted for their very non-optimal room placement.

How did you chamfer out the back of the driver? did you use a router? I've seen a chamfer plane, but I don't see how you'd fit it in a 3 3/4" hole.

I'll be building a similar pair of bookshelf speakers using the same driver. Are these still working out well for you?

[BoomieMCT]

blk_addr wrote:

How did you chamfer out the back of the driver? did you use a router? I've seen a chamfer plane, but I don't see how you'd fit it in a 3 3/4" hole.

I'll be building a similar pair of bookshelf speakers using the same driver. Are these still working out well for you?

First off these are working out great for me in this application (ambient music, not critical listening). I use my TABAQs for more critical listening but these are cheaper and I use them in a smaller enclosure. The W4-656 is a neat driver with a huge motor and good excursion for its size. It can also be used as an outdoor speaker if the enclosure is semi-waterproof. I had to add a notch filter to take care of the peak at 8kHz (see my previous post). I forget the exact values but I think it was something like R = 20 ohms, L = 0.25 mH and C = 2.2 uF. I'll get a new FR to show what that does to it.

As far as chamfering, if done before the box is built you can use a 45 degree bit and rout out the back. Try to stay clear of the screw holes. If you don't want to rout it, get a half-round wood file or one of those circular sanding bits for a power drill and use that. I prefer files or the drill because it is easier to stay away from the screw holes. No one will see the chamfer side so it doesn't have to be pretty.

Well I pulled the trigger yesterday, and my 4" Tang Bands should be here Friday! I also ordered a few extras... the 3" drivers you used in your Waiting for Pie speakers, binding posts, screws, and a BASH 500W plate amp I'll use for a future subwoofer project (though for now it will be going in a Tympani TPS15 I got for free). I'll be using a removable front baffle, so hopefully it will be a bit easier to go back in to add a notch filter later on.

[BoomieMCT]

blk_addr wrote:

Well I pulled the trigger yesterday, and my 4" Tang Bands should be here Friday! I also ordered a few extras... the 3" drivers you used in your Waiting for Pie speakers, binding posts, screws, and a BASH 500W plate amp I'll use for a future subwoofer project (though for now it will be going in a Tympani TPS15 I got for free). I'll be using a removable front baffle, so hopefully it will be a bit easier to go back in to add a notch filter later on.

This is way off topic but I was thinking about subs. They have this 12 ohm subwoofer driver on sale at Madisound. It would be neat to wire three in parallel to a 500W amp.

[BoomieMCT]

Well, I got some new electrical componants to play around with and figured I'd revisit this project. After a few hours of testing different BSC's and notch filters here is the combination I liked the best;'

BSC
R = 4 ohms
L = 0.8 mH

Notch
R = 16 ohms
L = 0.11 mH
C = 4.7 mF

I say this is the best not because it had the absolute flattest FR but because it sounded the best to me. The main thing I was looking for was;

1) Decent free air (4pi) bass response without making the treble sound stuffed (something that hapens with too much BSC).

2) Taking the 7kHz shrillness / breakup out.

3) Maintaining clear treble (can be tough with these drivers).

Testing the bass is easy - it's there or it isn't. I found a set of songs that highlighted the shrillness I noticed. This included the moaning part of Rusted Root's "Drum Trip", most guitar by Satriani and "Mandelgroove" from Blue Man Group's "Audio". I've started trusting my ears more then my gear to know what will make me happy.

[gychang]

BoomieMCT wrote:

Another thing I played around with on these set of speakers was finishing. I had had problems getting the corners of my MDF nice and smooth after painting. A friend recommended Zinser Bin as a primer. Because it is shelac based it plugs up the little holes in the MDF and keeps it from drinking up all my paint coat after coat. I'm pretty happy with the "hammered metal" Rustolium I used - with the bronze colored cones I think it also rocks.

Great finish, I want to use this for my amplifier case I am making from MDF. I will use the same primer, I assume "hammmered metal" Rustolium was spray can?

thanks,

gychang

[BoomieMCT]

gychang wrote:

Great finish, I want to use this for my amplifier case I am making from MDF. I will use the same primer, I assume "hammmered metal" Rustolium was spray can?

thanks,

gychang

Yup. This is Zinser Bin primer and the metallic grey "hammered" Rustoleum. Other than stained wood this is probably my favorite finish (the wife likes the hammered bronze).

[sepi6]

Hi here is first measurements from my 4" full range "project". Cabin is copied from Cyborgs Stick difference is that I used TangBang W4-657SC instead of W4-655SE.

Because element is different than "instructions" so I just started to measure what would be final compination for filter. I leaved only 7kHz notch filter and measured...seams to be that this element needs atleast notch filter to 8-9kHz maybe something else.... Note that dB-level isn't calibrated to correct reading.
Speakers sounds nice, even midbass comes firmly. Really nice "budjet speaker".
More when cross over has been modified to fit this element.

[BoomieMCT]

Very pretty! What wood did you use? I keep meaning to make some Cyburg Sticks to compare to my TABAQs I made.

I don't think you can use the notch filter for one driver for another - it is more based on the driver not the enclosure.

[sepi6]

BoomieMCT wrote:

Very pretty! What wood did you use? I keep meaning to make some Cyburg Sticks to compare to my TABAQs I made.

I don't think you can use the notch filter for one driver for another - it is more based on the driver not the enclosure.

Cabinets are made of MDF with birch wood veneer sheet finish. I taked risk that notch filter ( I had parts from other project) wouldn't fit, parameters looked close enough to try but you can't always win .Need some welding and measurements

[Geoff St. Germain]

I slapped some TangBang W4-657SCs into a pair of old JBL Flix surround speaker boxes I had laying around. Although it was unplanned, it was an improvement (when I compared the two drivers it was obvious why).

[Doug Plumb]

Sepi6, how did you get that nice frequency response graph ? Do you have an echoeless chamber or is it some averages ?

[Mongrel714]

The "Hammered metal" paint is great, I used it on one of my guitars, very nice look.

[BoomieMCT]

Mongrel714 wrote:

The "Hammered metal" paint is great, I used it on one of my guitars, very nice look.

That I'd like to see!

[BolognaBlake]

If you were to do it over again, would you add a small super tweeter, or are you happy as-is?

I want to make something very similar for my computer, as my KEF monitors are too large and add to the clutter.