A couple questions for Kevin - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #1 of 4 Old 02-27-10, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
jeff henning
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ardmore, PA
Posts: 9
A couple questions for Kevin

I just signed up to this dog & pony show to ask a few questions. Hopefully, nothing to strenuous for you.

I play bass guitar - one thing I've always despised about bass amps is that the speakers usually suck. Oh, they're loud, but fidelity is nonexistent. A long time ago, I used to play out with a bi-amped, 3 way rig (more a single stack PA than a bass amp). While not true hifi, with some judicious EQ, it sounded pretty good. I used to love the looks I'd get when I'd do a pre-gig sound check by pumping a high-end Sony Discman through it and it sounded better than the main PA system (house sound guys never gave me any flack).

Having eschewed the bass amp paradigm, I've been playing out with a Line 6 Bass Pod XT and a Mackie SRM-450 (set as a floor wedge). The system is pretty hifi, powerful and very portable, but it has no response below 45hz so low E's & B's have no authority. I have no desire to add standard 15" cabs (too heavy, awkward, etc.).

Actually, I've gotten the idea from Linkwitz, BG corp & KEF's Blade to build a compact, bipolar, dual 12" sub. It's a 13x13x24 box with a 12 incher on each end. This cabinet walls will be double layer, inch plywood where the internal layer will actually connect each woofer, making the cabinet walls a frame that causes the mechanical vibrations of the opposing woofers to hopefully, mostly cancel out. To lighten the cab, the internal layer of plywood will also have large, swiss-cheese like round cut-outs. After it's all done, it should be a robust, fairly light and very inert cabinet.

Doing some rough calculations, it would seem that the internal volume will be a little over a 1 cu. ft. so the only way to get low bass out of it will be woofer excursion, amp power & EQ. I realize that this type of box has limited low bass output capabilities, but I'm interested in portability and fidelity, not bone crushing db's. Most likely, I'd make 2 of these cabs and would stack them with the SRM-450 on top (x'd-over @ 100hz). I can't imagine four 12" subs not pumping out all the 31hz goodness I could need on stage or at small, club gigs.

1) In a set-up like this, would stuffing the box with recycled cotton make much of a difference? I've found this to really clean up response between 100-300hz, but that's way above the intended range here. The Paradigm Servo 15's use at home have nothing, but scant usage of foam in them and they sound great so...

2) What's the weight of a Shiva 12"?

3) Am I mistaken in my observation that the Shiva uses the same 12 spoke cast frame as the Dayton Titanic MkIII 12"?

The reason I ask the last question is because I was planning on using them in the prototype stage and use the Shiva once I've ironed out all of the issues with cabinet construction. If the frames are identical, I wouldn't need to change anything when I switched over to your subs.

Thanks for you time in advance,
jeff henning

Last edited by jeffca; 02-27-10 at 01:16 PM.
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post #2 of 4 Old 03-01-10, 10:52 AM
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Port Angeles, WA
Posts: 1,026
Re: A couple questions for Kevin

This is something that is probably better answered in an email. If you have something specific to ask just me email is always the best.


Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
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post #3 of 4 Old 03-02-10, 02:06 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 2,431
Re: A couple questions for Kevin

Nothing against Kevin's products, they are very solid units, but I don't think this is a good application for the ShivaX. (Sorry Kevin )

Bass guitar only goes down to about 27.5hz at the lowest normally. That's drop A down tuning on a 5 or 6 string. I completely agree that the majority of dedicated bass guitar cabs out there use cheap speakers and are limited in both low end and high end extension and power handling. Most of them won't really even hit 30-40hz well. They are tuned too high and the drivers don't have enough excursion. on top of all of that the bass heads don't have enough power. The efficiency of the Shiva's in the meat of the bass guitar range 30-200hz is not great. You'd need around 4X the power to get them going at the same output levels. You are crossing over at 100hz in a biamped system so that takes care of my other points against using the ShivaX for bass guitar, but the efficiency issue still exists. That would be a major issue for some.
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post #4 of 4 Old 03-02-10, 11:53 PM
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Posts: 790
Re: A couple questions for Kevin

I agree with Ricci as a former BG player and PA owner/operator.

Firstly you don't generally want 30Hz loud on stage as it will tend to find more rattles than usual that need to be tamed. Second, with low efficiency drivers in sealed boxes, how are you going to get rid of all the heat created? And carrying 4kW of amps will be a pain not to mention the load in/out of 2 cabs with a pair of Shivas each.

Something like the Eminence 3015LF in 120L sealed, tuned to 40Hz under the SRM450 (which I am very familiar with) would be my choice, unless you go for an all in one solution like the fEarful. The 15/6/1 would be my preference.

Oh, and here are some of my basses, the 3 main ones along with a T40 and Roadster 924.

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