The perfect IB driver...

**Sonnie** · **07-07-06, 03:14 PM**

What would the TS Parameters be on the perfect IB sub? Remember too that price counts towards perfect. If it cost $500 then it really ain't perfect for IB is it? Very few will buy it.

You could post all are part of the parameters... if you know one particularly you'd like to see in one... post it.

Is there a build quality standard?

Has there ever been one produced that was perfect?

EDIT: Let's put it like this. If I could find someone to manufacturer an IB sub and say keep it around $150 - $200 range... what would be the needed parameters to get you to buy it? (Did I just blow my perfect idea?)

**Josuah** · **07-07-06, 08:29 PM**

I don't understand your second sentence. And the answer to your fourth question is obviously no.

Anyway, from what I've read you want low Q, high excursion, and linear movement. So the T/S parameters I'd be looking at are Q, Xmx, and Fs (which isn't linear movement, of course). I'm not sure what measurement deals with linearity. I've only seen graphs of that. The new TC Sounds linear drivers are more expensive.

**Sonnie** · **07-07-06, 10:11 PM**

Does sound confusing... basically what you did though.

If you have certain parameters you want to see the you can post those. IOW's you don't have to give me every parameter... just the ones you think are most important to you.

But I'm looking for numbers too.

Xmax = ??
Fs = ??

etc., etc.

What parameters would make it perfect and keep the price reasonable too.

**Chrisbee** · **07-08-06, 02:15 AM**

Xmax 25mm

Fs 15Hz

$ 20

**F1 fan** · **07-08-06, 08:49 AM**

Quote:

Chrisbee wrote:

Xmax 25mm

Fs 15Hz

$ 20

And only 6" in diameter

**Brian Bunge** · **07-08-06, 01:30 PM**

You really don't want the Q to be too low or it'll sound very dry. I like the looks one of the drivers that John Janowitz is supposed to be building would be just about ideal. In an IB setup they would have a natural F3 of 18Hz, no EQ. Oh, and they'll be $400 for 3 15's! I have specs somewhere.

**Sonnie** · **07-08-06, 10:18 PM**

If you can get those specs... he's designing specifically for IB anyway.

heehee.... 6" ??? You'd have to have 100 of them.

**Brian Bunge** · **07-08-06, 10:27 PM**

Sonnie,

I've got them on my laptop somewhere. I think I saved them into Unibox. I'll take a look there.

**Chrisbee** · **07-09-06, 01:50 AM**

Brian

Are you talking about a new model from AE?

Or is this the same IB15 from before his reorganisation?

**FlashJim** · **07-09-06, 04:00 AM**

I believe it's the same one. If they had been available, I wouldn't have bought my RL-P15.

**Chrisbee** · **07-09-06, 08:18 AM**

I still have the original specs for the AE IB15 if it is of interest:

Fs....... 16Hz

QMS... .49

QES.... .48

QTS.... .44

VAS.... 467 Litres

Zn....... 8 Ohms

RE....... 5.6 Ohms

LE....... 1.25mH

Mms..... 218g

Cms..... .45 mm/N

Bl......... 16

Sd......... 855 cm^2

SPL....... 89.5 dB (2.83V)

Pe....... 500 Watts (cont)

Xmax... 15.5 mm

VC dia... 54 mm

VC L.... 38mm

Gap ht.. .385"

**Brian Bunge** · **07-09-06, 09:08 AM**

Nope, this is a new driver. It models better than the original with a natural F3 of 18Hz and max output of 118dB at 20Hz anechoic with only 500W of power. Oh and you're still at 110dB at 10Hz!

Here are the specs:

Fs: 16.5Hz

Re: 5.32 ohms

Qms: 4.30

Qes: .70

Qts: .62

Sd: 850 cm^2

Vas: 495L

Xmax: 18mm

Le: .5mH

This is everything you need to model the drivers in Unibox. Remember that when modeling an IB you need to multiply Vas by the total number of drivers you're using and then multiply that by a minimum of 4 (better to do 10) and that is the box volume you should use to sim an IB.

**Sonnie** · **07-09-06, 11:08 PM**

Just snooping around the Dayton list of drivers and saw this Titanic sub... 4+ at $190 each and the specs ain't just shabby I don't think.

**Jack Gilvey** · **07-10-06, 08:19 AM**

They make an IB-specific driver, also:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=295-455

**Sonnie** · **07-10-06, 09:27 AM**

Yeah... I saw that one too... didn't look as robust at the one above, but probably other TS parameters that are better on it than the one I posted.

**Brian Bunge** · **07-10-06, 06:24 PM**

Actually, the Titanic 15 doesn't look too bad in IB form. A little boost down low and it should be flat in room. , it's probably pretty flat even without boost.

But, for the money I'd rather go with AE's IB 15 if/when it becomes available.

**JCD** · **07-10-06, 07:28 PM**

I can say I've actually heard the Titanic III in an IB setup.. and it was pretty darned good. Clean, loud, etc.. and this from only two drivers. The person in question is pretty discerning, so I'm sure he did his due diligence before buying. It's the driver I'd probably end up buying right now if I had to go out and buy something.

JCD

**Brian Bunge** · **07-10-06, 07:32 PM**

Yeah, I know they're nicely built. I designed and built a dual Titanic 15" sub for a guy in Atlanta when I lived there. It was a real beast. The bad thing is, I never got a chance to hear it in his system. He kept dragging his heels about what components to buy and a year later he still didn't have his HT finished.

He suffered from the dreaded "analysis paralysis"!

**Darren** · **07-12-06, 09:54 AM**

Actually a better driver from AE for IB is the AV15... even better for IB than their IB line which is more of a cost/performance driver.

I was holding out for the new IB15 from John but they never materialized and are still several months out from what I've heard through the grape vine. I went with the RL-P15's, very comprable to the AV15 and available right now. In fact will be on my doorstep in 2 days.

At 3.96 liters of displacement you can hardly beat it. and with 4 of them I'll be getting about 16 liters

As far as EQ... every IB subwoofer requires EQ... ya just can't get around it if you want it to sound good. The IB's reveal the nulls and reinforced frequencies quite a bit more than a box sub.

**Brian Bunge** · **07-12-06, 05:09 PM**

Darren,

The AV15 does look to be an excellent driver for IB use, especially with it's greater Xmax and power handling. The two biggest areas where the IB15 shines are it's flat anechoic response and it's price.

My comment about EQ was that you didn't need any (or very little at least) boost to get in room extension well below 20Hz. Many of the other subs roll off fairly high and will need boost down low. Other than that, I agree completely. Every sub needs EQ, be it IB, standard sealed, ported, or PR'd enclosures.

**Darren** · **07-12-06, 05:58 PM**

Ah, yes... very true, I have flat extension to 10Hz for sure and even lower but I can't measure below 10

The EQ is for taming the curve beyond that as you clarified...

**bossobass** · **07-16-06, 03:10 PM**

I know I'll get drummed out of the thread for the price of this driver, but all of those mentioned so far are either not available or most certainly nowhere near 'Perfect"

The Acoupower 18" is an absolute monster. 2 of them with 1200 watts should be about all most HTs will need. 4 of them with 2400 watts would be pretty astounding:raped: You'll stay within clean Bl limits, only be using about 60% of available Xmax and be at 30% of it's power handling capacity. It's Qts is .58...just about perfect, IMO. It's surround is probably the best ever devised for long, linear travel and Vd is a whopper. Expensive...yes, but perfection has it's price.

Acoupower 18"
Sd = 0.108 m^2
Cms = 106.6 um/N
Vas = 174 liters
Re = 6.2 ohms
Mms = 305 g
Fo = 28.2 Hz
BL = 23.3 t*m
Qe = 0.62
Qm = 8.90
Qt = 0.58
SPL = 90.5

Bosso

**Chrisbee** · **07-16-06, 05:31 PM**

I wonder whether a bandpass box wouldn't make better use of these drivers?

Excellent website! The vidoes were fascinating.

6" voice coil and 3" of linear motion! These drivers are really in another world.

I wonder whether anyone has asked them about IB applications?

A very strong manifold with an opposed pair to help cancel out the mechanical forces for $1700 dollars + freight for July only?

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