12 inch IB woofer recommendations?

**lcaillo** · **07-29-06, 12:36 AM**

I have a space that I can put 4 12 inch subs but putting 15 inch would be a little too tight. Anyone have any suggestions on the best choice in 12s without spending more than a couple of hundred each? Most of the best IB subs seem to be 15s.

**Chrisbee** · **07-29-06, 02:24 AM**

I wonder why you are choosing 12" drivers simply because of lack of space.

Bigger drivers really don't have to be on display in an array unless you insist on it.

Do you have room for a hidden manifold above the ceiling, under the floor or behind a wall shared with a large storage area?

You could build a (so called) "outie" manifold that is physically in the room like any other sub box but with drivers on all sides. An "outie" manifold can sit on the floor or hang off the wall or the ceiling with the backwash firing into the space on the other side of the surface it rests against.

Have you read the FAQs and looked through the gallery on the IB Cult specialist forums? You might find a great way of sneaking some bigger drivers into your system. Another alternative might be 8 x 12" instead of 4 x 15".

http://ibsubwoofers.proboards51.com/index.cgi?

**lcaillo** · **07-29-06, 06:11 AM**

Everything has to be in the ceiling for this room, and I could work in 15s, but the spot that I would like them to be for easiest access and best location would be easier with 12s. Also, the experimenter in me is curious to see how they will sound. Compared to what I use now, even 12s should be a big upgrade, and since I rarely listen at high levels, it seems like a reasonable experiment.

**JimPeitersen** · **08-01-06, 02:03 AM**

Pick your poison:

http://www.mach5audio.com/index.php?...b5fda3922ce62a

There is some talk at the IB "Cult" about these drivers and the first impressions on the 18" model is that they are good budget drivers (think old Adire Shiva, PE DVC series, Stryke 1204, etc.) The prices are great, so you can use multiples of them to get the air movement you need for the IB.
JP

**F1 fan** · **08-01-06, 02:46 AM**

Quote:

JimPeitersen wrote:

Pick your poison:

http://www.mach5audio.com/index.php?...b5fda3922ce62a

There is some talk at the IB "Cult" about these drivers and the first impressions on the 18" model is that they are good budget drivers (think old Adire Shiva, PE DVC series, Stryke 1204, etc.) The prices are great, so you can use multiples of them to get the air movement you need for the IB.
JP

Great price and they look good but fs is 30hz on the 18"(the 12" is 22.9hz)'. Is this not a bit to high for optimum use in an IB?

**Chrisbee** · **08-01-06, 08:07 AM**

Quote:

F1 fan wrote:

Great price and they look good but fs is 30hz on the 18"(the 12" is 22.9hz)'. Is this not a bit to high for optimum use in an IB?

Thomas at the IB Cult will tell you that Fs isn't that important when the BFD is used for cheap and easy equalisation.

**Darren** · **08-01-06, 09:00 AM**

Personally I'd stick with the higher excursion drivers and spend the $$ if you have the budget. I was impressed with the lower excursion drivers...14mm for example but it is night and day when you get beyond 20mm. I wouldn't have been satisfied with lower excursion.

Have you considered using 15's in a manifold rather than an array or were you thinking manifold already?

**ThomasW** · **08-01-06, 09:49 PM**

http://www.tcsounds.com/tc1000.htm

**reed.hannebaum** · **08-08-06, 10:44 PM**

This doesn't really meet your size or $ requirements, but I found this very unusual IB driver that I thought would be of interest.

http://www.rotarywoofer.com/

**Sonnie** · **08-08-06, 11:48 PM**

In action....

Did someone say $13K

On a more rational note... Leonard.... have you decided what to go with yet?

**lcaillo** · **08-09-06, 07:46 AM**

Not yet. Still just looking at drivers. I am mostly curious now to see how 12s would work, since no one seems to do it.

**toecheese** · **08-09-06, 09:27 AM**

The classic 12" driver is the Shiva- they've re-released it (and cheap!) http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~aco...shiva_classic/

This is the speaker that Thomas of IB Cult fame actually started with. If you go to that site, you'll see many examples of it.

**ThomasW** · **08-09-06, 09:36 AM**

Quote:

Not yet. Still just looking at drivers. I am mostly curious now to see how 12s would work, since no one seems to do it.

All the drivers in my 2 IB's are 12"s. The primary reason for that is due to the fact that almost 7yrs ago there weren't any reasonably priced 15"s available. Also the floor joist spacing for the larger IB dictated the use of 12"s.

I went with 12"s in the small IB since I got a very good price buying a large number of identical drivers.

**Sonnie** · **08-09-06, 10:57 AM**

There are plenty of great pics to see, including ThomasW's on I believe page 4...

http://home.comcast.net/~infinitelyb...B-Gallery.html

**Chrisbee** · **08-09-06, 04:53 PM**

Also check out the frappr IB Cult world map linked from the IB Cult's forum home page.

On page 3 of the IB Cult's frappr pictures there's a nice image of an 8 x 12" array set in the front of a stage. Look for Kristian Mortensen of Roskilde, Denmark.

**lcaillo** · **08-09-06, 08:33 PM**

Quote:

ThomasW wrote:

All the drivers in my 2 IB's are 12"s. The primary reason for that is due to the fact that almost 7yrs ago there weren't any reasonably priced 15"s available. Also the floor joist spacing for the larger IB dictated the use of 12"s.

I went with 12"s in the small IB since I got a very good price buying a large number of identical drivers.

So how did it work? Were you using the Shiva 12s?

**ThomasW** · **08-09-06, 09:11 PM**

It works extremely well. I started off with Shiva's then changed to the DLP12 when they were offered at a very low preproduction sale. The difference is performance in minimal.

Another option for those needing a good 12" would be the 12" TC2+ offered by www.oaudio.com These have a low Fs and a nice highish Xmax. We've done some distortion testing and the distortion is quite low

**Robert_J** · **08-10-06, 10:19 AM**

A 12" that is overlooked a lot is last year's Cerwin Vega V-Max. I have the 15" version running in my HT right now. It's built like a tank and ugly as one as well. I also have the 10" version that I'm going to install in my car.

T/S parameters:
Fs 20 HZ
Qts 0.37
Qms 9.94
Qes 0.38
Vas 93 L
Xmax 20.3mm
Re 3.68 Ohms/coil

I'm still looking for a couple more of the 15's and that's where I ran up on the ebay auction 150018159790. 12's are $100 shipped.

-Robert

**Sonnie** · **08-10-06, 10:23 AM**

Hi Robert and welcome to the Shack!

Are you using the Vega's in an IB now?

**Robert_J** · **08-10-06, 11:19 AM**

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

Hi Robert and welcome to the Shack!

Thanks. This is one of the last home theater forums I didn't belong to so I decided to join.

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

Are you using the Vega's in an IB now?

Right now I'm using them in a sealed alignment running off one channel of an EP-2500. For a "cheap car sub", they sound surprisingly good. I'll be going to an IB as soon as it cools off (early December here in MS) using the CV's if I can find more or four TC Sounds IB 15's that Stephen Ponte sold on the Mad board a couple of years ago. My ultimate goal for IB is four TC Sounds TC-3000's.

-Robert

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