Integrating IB system with current subs...

**Sonnie** · **06-27-06, 12:55 AM**

All this IB DIY stuff has got me wanting to dive into it... and I think I may over the next few months.

This is not in any way indicating that my PB12-Plus/2's are not making me happy, they are incredible to say the least. This more just me loving to tinker with subs and being able to say, "Been there, done that!" for the fun of it more than anything else.

If you check out my car stereo link you'll quickly learn I love building sub boxes and experimenting with various subs. I've only built about 25-30 for myself and others.

Anyway... I'm considering a 4 driver setup with an amp. I don't know if I'd even bother with a x-over. I may use the other channel of my BFD and set a few filters there to act as a crossover... that should still leave me with enough filters to use on any peaks I might end up with.

My thinking is to use the IB to augment my response down super low... like below 25hz. I'll probably tune my SVS subs to 25hz to optimize them for more headroom, not that I need it, but why not. I may however run the IB's up to around 50-60hz to see if I can work out the huge valley I have at 40-45hz. That way I don't have to boost my SVS subs any... but I do want to keep the IB's lower so that I make sure they are not localized, as they will be in the ceiling/attic.

Man... can you imagine having two PB12-Plus/2's and a 4 driver IB setup? I know... overkill.

I've not decided on drivers yet... got some ideas but will discuss those later. I'm more interested in what amp is best to use for 4 drivers, or does this depend on the drivers I choose?

I'm wondering if I'm thinking along the right track here with what I want to do and also looking for any and all suggestions, opinions, recommedations, etc., etc.

**Darrel Hawthorne** · **06-27-06, 08:48 AM**

Hey Sonnie,
These should get you up to speed:
Enjoy,
Darrel

http://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/

http://home.comcast.net/~infinitelyb...d%20deals.html

**Darren** · **06-27-06, 08:57 AM**

As to the question about augmenting your existing subs with the IB restricting it to the extreme lows... I've heard it discussed and think it would probably be a great idea assuming you could keep any cancellation under control with filters/crossovers. You might try posting a question at the "Cult".

**JCD** · **06-27-06, 01:10 PM**

Purely on a gut level, with absolutely no science or real world knowledge to back it up, my feeling is that there will be some negative issues related to having a IB coexist with a traditional box sub.

My main reason for stating this is that the Cult is pretty vehement against mixing drivers (much less sub types) in an IB setup.

That's all I got though.. I would love for you to try it out though for two reasons:
1) It would be great to get a comparison to dual SVS subs
2) It's not my money

JCD

**Sonnie** · **06-27-06, 01:23 PM**

If I ran into problems I could let the IB handle up to 25hz and the SVS handle 25hz and above. This would give the SVS some serious headroom for super clean output... not that it's necessarily needed.

**Chrisbee** · **06-28-06, 03:31 AM**

However good they are I think your box subs would just swamp the IB with distortion.

It's never just about playing low frequencies. You can do that many different ways.

SVS subs can do it superbly and impressively in huge quantities for films.

What IBs are about is very low distortion and extension.

What you hear for the first time in your life from a loudspeaker is the fundamental without the usual harmonic hangers-on who will never leave the party.

It is instantly recognisable on drums, organs, electric and double bass.

You know immediately that something is very different and obviously right.

It's not just about the new sense of foundation, authority and depth that you've never heard before.

It's about realistic leading edges and decay without the usual mud and mush you never knew you had. At all levels too! Not just when things get loud.

You can hear a gentle drum on a quiet folk track and it sounds like its roots go as deep as a coal mine and it is surrounded in pitch darkness.

Get yourself a home demo from an owner of an IB with at least 4 x 15" drivers and hear the clear difference for yourself.

Then use at least 8 x 15" drivers when you build your own IB and cross over to your speakers at 80Hz. You don't want to deliberately introduce harmonics which aren't produced by the IB, do you?

Thomas will advise if you ask him nicely. Just don't say I sent you and you'll probably be okay.

**brucek** · **06-28-06, 07:48 AM**

Quote:

If I ran into problems I could let the IB handle up to 25hz and the SVS handle 25hz and above. This would give the SVS some serious headroom for super clean

I just don't think it's a good idea. On the other hand if you're a crazy man (and I guess we've already established that), and you want to do this, I would consider using one or the other - not both at the same time.

brucek

**Sonnie** · **06-28-06, 11:41 AM**

I'd definitely have to think I was crazy if I used 8 x 15's

Is that all eight in one manifold or use two and separate them in the room?

I just remembered I can't place the IB in the dead center front because I've got a 3" pipe running down the center, which would be impossible to move. So, if I do this, I'll have to either place it slightly off center or do two locations, maybe one above each front speaker or whatever the recommendation is.

I doubt I'll get wrapped up with ThomasW. I've always gotten the vibe that for some reason he don't like me. Although I think he's a smart man and offers a great service to a lot of people. Hopefullly I can get enough advice from IB DIY'ers here... then again I might wonder over there sooner or later and see what happens.

**Darren** · **06-28-06, 11:43 AM**

I got the same vibe the first time I encountered ThomasW, it's just how he rolls

He's a good guy and helps whenever possible. I'm sure there is nothing there... he can just be "terse" sometimes but has always come through for me.

**JCD** · **06-28-06, 11:47 AM**

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

I'd definitely have to think I was crazy if I used 8 x 15's

Is that all eight in one manifold or use two and separate them in the room?

Doesn't have to be in one manifold -- and you don't even have to use a manifold. And I don't think 8 is crazy !

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

I doubt I'll get wrapped up with ThomasW. I've always gotten the vibe that for some reason he don't like me. Although I think he's a smart man and offers a great service to a lot of people. Hopefullly I can get enough advice from IB DIY'ers here... then again I might wonder over there sooner or later and see what happens.

He's like like that with EVERYBODY. He's very generous with his time, but I don't think I've read more than a handful of posts where he didn't come off a little brusque. I'm sure he's a nice guy in person, but his online persona is a little.. well, you know.

JCD

**Darrel Hawthorne** · **06-28-06, 06:33 PM**

Hey Sonnie,
I am currently doing something very similar to what your proposing..
The rub is that I am doing it with a combination of OB and IB drivers that were all designed to work well together.
For my mains I run a Duet of the Silver Iris Coaxial and the Silver Iris OB Augie.
This is all that's needed for all music and most movies... I do bottom the Augies on dynamic material like WOTW etc. So I will be handing off to a quad of Silver Iris IB BAD's in an attic mounted IB manifold.

This works very well but it may have to do with my configuration and desired results...

I like stereo Augie's for music. They have the advantage of dipole radiation and ultra clean response. Even though most music is mixed to have a center phantom bass image, you can still hear channel separation in the upper harmonics on some good recordings.

I would think that you could do a high pass on your box to insure he only plays from a preset low to a preset high end roll off. This would free him up from the really low stuff yet still allow him to augment your mains.This would protect your drivers and keep distortion to a minimum.
A high pass set about 25-30 hz with a 24db slope should keep him happy.
Bring your IB sub system in at 20hz and let him take you down into the black darkness that only IB 's venture......

Or skip your sub and run your IB up to hand off to your mains at around 80hz....

What do you want to accomplish? Find out this and the rest is easy...
Good luck with your project.
Darrel

**jmprader** · **06-28-06, 09:43 PM**

Quote:

Darren wrote:

I got the same vibe the first time I encountered ThomasW, it's just how he rolls

He's a good guy and helps whenever possible. I'm sure there is nothing there... he can just be "terse" sometimes but has always come through for me.

Darren, a point of order.

I believe there is an unwritten rule ("Man-date") in the Man-Code that your head shot be inserted into your Avatar at the conclusion of a successful IB project. I believe it is due now, but being a lesser humanoid with commercially manufactured subs (which I very much enjoy), it may that the requirment applies upon successful system integration and posting of your graphs/results.

Should you fail to comply with these sacred provisions of the code, I will be asking Sonnie and whatever pointy-headed former grand dragons I can conjure up from his neck of the woods to discipline you appropriately should you not bring yourself into compliance with said mandates!

**Darren** · **06-28-06, 11:29 PM**

Quote:

jmprader wrote:

Darren, a point of order.

I believe there is an unwritten rule ("Man-date") in the Man-Code that your head shot be inserted into your Avatar at the conclusion of a successful IB project. I believe it is due now, but being a lesser humanoid with commercially manufactured subs (which I very much enjoy), it may that the requirment applies upon successful system integration and posting of your graphs/results.

Should you fail to comply with these sacred provisions of the code, I will be asking Sonnie and whatever pointy-headed former grand dragons I can conjure up from his neck of the woods to discipline you appropriately should you not bring yourself into compliance with said mandates!

Um, ok but ya gotta wait until I have my permanent drivers installed...these are just beta test drivers

That should be a couple weeks from now

**SteveCallas** · **06-29-06, 11:03 PM**

Sonnie, I also don't think it's a good idea to try and utilize both. Every now and then I read of people wanting to try to combine subs so that one is responsible for upper bass and one just for the really low end, and to me it just doesn't make any sense. The subs that can handle the really low end great (without using any EQ tricks) are usually monster subwoofers that will also be able to handle the upper bass superbly 99% of the time. The upper bass would just be a complete cake walk for them. In this case, with good drivers, you'd benefit more from just letting the IB handle it all. In addition, I'm not a big fan of the idea of using a ported sub tuned too much higher then ~18hz.

If you really want to pursue the IB, and you know of a spot for mounting where you are sure you will get response at least as good as your PB12/Plus2's, I'd sell them and buy more drivers for the IB.

**Sonnie** · **06-29-06, 11:41 PM**

I'm gonna have both and just use one or the other all along. Experiment. Who knows what I'll ultimately end up doing.... keeping the SVS's or selling them. I may just keep both and play and tinker. I'll do something another, but I want to give IB a try.

I'm starting a new thread on this though.... it's no longer about integrating... it's all about just getting an IB setup installed.

New thread here!

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