WinISD - Sonosub Cone Excursion Graph

[blizzisu]

Can WinISD calculate the cone excursion for a ported sonosub enclosure? I have attempted do calculate this, but the excursion data seemed awfully low (i.e. .05 inches).

[Mike P.]

Yes it can. What sub are you modeling?

[blizzisu]

I am just in the learning phases about WinISD and Sonosub. At some point I would like to build a sonosub or a ported sub. I have been playing around with the Infinity Kappa Perfect 12.1 in WinISD and have also entered its specs into Sonosub.

Also, how do you calculate the optimum volume of a sonosub? Is it by the driver to box top resonance that you would like?

[Mike P.]

WinISD clalculates the optimum volume for a given application. ( music, HT, or both). After that's figured out Sonosub.exe will figure out the proper size of sonosub and porting depending on the specs you input from the WinISD modeling.

[blizzisu]

Mike P. wrote:

WinISD clalculates the optimum volume for a given application. ( music, HT, or both). After that's figured out Sonosub.exe will figure out the proper size of sonosub and porting depending on the specs you input from the WinISD modeling.

Thank you, that helps alot. I was doing things backwards. However, WinISD is setting the tuning freq. to 20.96. Is this due to the fact that the Infinity is a 12" driver? I see alot of people tuning to ~15 with 15" and 18" drivers.

[Mike P.]

WinISD calculates what it thinks is best according to the parameters of the sub. Box size and tuning can be changed according to the subs capabilities and what your needs are. Are you thinking of a HT sub?

[blizzisu]

Mike P. wrote:

WinISD calculates what it thinks is best according to the parameters of the sub. Box size and tuning can be changed according to the subs capabilities and what your needs are. Are you thinking of a HT sub?

Yes this would be for 99% HT use. The sad thing is that I have only had my BIC H100 for about 3 weeks and I already want more low end :P

I like how easy the sonosubs look to build compared to a ported box, and the reason I was modeling the Infinity Kappa Perfect 12 was because I would like to minimize how wide of a sonotube I would need to use.

[Mike P.]

Do you have a link to the Kappa Perfect 12 T/S parameters?

[blizzisu]

Mike P. wrote:

Do you have a link to the Kappa Perfect 12 T/S parameters?

http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Ow...2012-2-02).pdf

The last page has the specs. I am open to better 12" driver suggestions as well, or even 15" drivers if it's possible to mount those in a 20" sonotube.

[Mike P.]

How much do you want to spend on a sub? What are you going to power it with?

[blizzisu]

Mike P. wrote:

How much do you want to spend on a sub? What are you going to power it with?

I'd like to keep the total around $500. I prefer plate amps mainly because my wife won't go for the looks of a rack mount amp :/ Women just don't see the beauty of A/V equipment

So something along these lines:

http://www.oaudio.com/500W_SUBAMP.html

or

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_...roducts_id=501

[collo]

You need to specify the input power on the "Signal" tab in order to see the excursion and SPL.

For a ported sub, the excursion graph is the most important one. It will tell you how much power you can use, and whether you need a high pass filter.

If adding a filter, the excursion graph lets you decide what frequency the filter needs to be.

For example, the input power affects the height of the hump on the right hand side of the following graph. The filter frequency affects the left hand one...

(Note this is only an example - not specific to your driver)

If you read Steve's article about LLT designs, you will see that low tuning often means you can do without a highpass filter.

[Mike P.]

For a 12 inch sub the Shiva-X is hard to beat. It has 27 mm Xmax and will handle more power then the Perfect 12 with it's 16 mm Xmax. The Shiva-X in 6.3 cu.ft tuned to 18 hz with 2 four inch flared ports would work nicely with the LT550 plate amp. The O-Audio amp is not recommeed for this setup due to the boost that is applied at the SSF frequency. You can read about the Shiva-X ported designs in the application notes found here:

http://www.diycable.com/main/pdf/shiva_app.pdf

The WinISD file for the Shiva-X is here:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...pro-files.html

$182 plus shipping for the Shiva-X, $250 for the LT550 amp, your well under $500.

[blizzisu]

collo wrote:

You need to specify the input power on the "Signal" tab in order to see the excursion and SPL.

That is what I was missing! Thanks so much. The graph really helped me visualize things too.

[blizzisu]

Thank you everyone for all your help in this learning process. Here is what I have come up with using an 18" Sonotube, Shiva-X, and LT550 amp:

[Mike P.]

In WinISD change the box size to 6.35 cu.ft. and lower the tuning to 18 hz. Apply 550 watts to the input power and go to the "rear port - air velocity" graph. With one 4 inch port you'll see that the air speed is well over 50 m/s. It should be around the 26 m/s mark. Change the port diameter to 6 inches. The port air speed is now 26 m/s where it should be to prevent "chuffing". Enter the new numbers in Sonosub.exe. If the port is too long and there is not enough distance from the end of the port to the back of the sub, use a smaller diameter sonotube to increase the height so everything "fits".

Place your pointer anywhere on the cone excursion graph. Right click and select options. On cone excursion type in 0 for Start and 1.5 for End. Click OK at the bottom right hand side. You will now be able to see the red line where maximum excursion is.

[blizzisu]

Mike P. wrote:

In WinISD change the box size to 6.35 cu.ft. and lower the tuning to 18 hz. Apply 550 watts to the input power and go to the "rear port - air velocity" graph. With one 4 inch port you'll see that the air speed is well over 50 m/s. It should be around the 26 m/s mark. Change the port diameter to 6 inches. The port air speed is now 26 m/s where it should be to prevent "chuffing". Enter the new numbers in Sonosub.exe. If the port is too long and there is not enough distance from the end of the port to the back of the sub, use a smaller diameter sonotube to increase the height so everything "fits".

Place your pointer anywhere on the cone excursion graph. Right click and select options. On cone excursion type in 0 for Start and 1.5 for End. Click OK at the bottom right hand side. You will now be able to see the red line where maximum excursion is.

Thanks for the tips. I had actually already done most of this already just by digging around the WinISD software.

With your design above, the cone excursion exceeds specs below about 16Hz. Will a high pass filter be required?

[Mike P.]

That will depend on how hard you push the sub. Try it out, if the sub doesn't bottom out then your ok. If it does then you'll need to add a subsonic filter.

[salvasol]

blizzisu wrote:

I am open to better 12" driver suggestions as well, or even 15" drivers if it's possible to mount those in a 20" sonotube.

Good luck with your build

I just want to answer your question about using a 15" driver in a 20" sonotube ....that's not a problem, Mike and other members modeled a sub for me; I used a 15" driver (Mach5 IXL 15.2.2) in an 18" sonotube tuned to 15Hz (here is the link to the build http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...b-build.html); so is not a problem at all

[Aaron Gilbert]

Mike P. wrote:

In WinISD change the box size to 6.35 cu.ft. and lower the tuning to 18 hz. Apply 550 watts to the input power and go to the "rear port - air velocity" graph. With one 4 inch port you'll see that the air speed is well over 50 m/s. It should be around the 26 m/s mark. Change the port diameter to 6 inches. The port air speed is now 26 m/s where it should be to prevent "chuffing".
...

Are these air speeds for a straight port, or flared? I've been shooting to keep mine below 17 m/s. If I can go up to 26 m/s without chuffing, so much the better!

[Mike P.]

For a flared port. Standing right beside a sub I could hear port noise at 26/ms playing sine waves, but not with program material.

[SteveCallas]

Mike wrote:

In WinISD change the box size to 6.35 cu.ft. and lower the tuning to 18 hz. Apply 550 watts to the input power and go to the "rear port - air velocity" graph. With one 4 inch port you'll see that the air speed is well over 50 m/s. It should be around the 26 m/s mark. Change the port diameter to 6 inches. The port air speed is now 26 m/s where it should be to prevent "chuffing". Enter the new numbers in Sonosub.exe. If the port is too long and there is not enough distance from the end of the port to the back of the sub, use a smaller diameter sonotube to increase the height so everything "fits".

Place your pointer anywhere on the cone excursion graph. Right click and select options. On cone excursion type in 0 for Start and 1.5 for End. Click OK at the bottom right hand side. You will now be able to see the red line where maximum excursion is.

This guy is the best isn't he? Everyday I see Mike helping out numerous people.

[Aaron Gilbert]

Mike P. wrote:

For a flared port. Standing right beside a sub I could hear port noise at 26/ms playing sine waves, but not with program material.

Cool, thanks. Certainly, most kinds of distortion are much easier to hear using sine waves. My audio generator is the primary tool I use for testing speakers.

SteveCallas wrote:

This guy is the best isn't he? Everyday I see Mike helping out numerous people.

I'll second that!

[Mike P.]

Thanks for the compliments. I enjoy subs and helping others and I learn things too!