Combo! Sealed Sub below Mains

**ironglen** · **10-12-09, 05:23 PM**

I'm going to try double checking the modeling of the tritrix sealed for power handling as I didn't get the value you did-it surpassed the 2.5mm xmax around 80-110hz, at a much lower input than advertised. When I modeled ported, performance was really only affected below 80hz and even then power handling wasn't as advertised, so I'll have to check again.

Based on what I've got so far, my plan would likely be to use a peerless mid/dayton tweeter small sealed setup, and if it failed, go to the tritrix kit. My design will use a simple flat baffle that I can easily change if needed, volume sealed is very forgiving for 5.25 drivers, so I'd be out $120 or so if I have to go to the tritrix configuration. A better plan than $600+, eh?

Or maybe I should pick up the tritrix kit now- then add the 4 peerless drivers for $50 (to my door) for a total of $170 plus any xover mods I add. I'd be able to do A-B comparisons as well

**ironglen** · **10-12-09, 07:14 PM**

A setback to option B is the tritrix now uses dual 4ohm mids, whereas it previously used dual 8 ohm mids in the triune format. My amps can handle the triune format's net 4 ohms no problem, however, the peerless mids are dual 8 ohm drivers, so I might ask if they can package the tritrix as the old triune for me, I hope

**evilskillit** · **10-12-09, 08:33 PM**

Let me know how it worked out. I had a set of 3way galaxy speakers that had a tweet, a mid and a 12" woofer. The woofer surround rotted out. Well I figure any 12 should work right? And any new 12 should sound better than a 20 year old woofer did so I bought some random 12" goldwood woofer.

The first one was the wrong impedence, it sounded horrible. Then I got a 4 ohm, at least it was loud enough now, but it still sounded like poopoo. I ended up shoving the speakers into the attic and trying to forget about them. Then one day I was cleaning the attic and saw them. Took out the perfeclty good but bad sounding 12s, modeled them in Winisd and forced them to be the subs in my 2 channel stereo set up. They sound great now. But in those galaxys, they were awful. All shrill, no bass at all

**ironglen** · **10-12-09, 09:38 PM**

I'm following you-I've modeled both sets of 5.25's in identical sealed volume, with the lower freq response curve almost identical given the same hpf from my preamp, only output being different. Both speakers will be well within their higher freq limit. The baffles on the tritrix is almost identical to the baffle from an nht speaker the peerless 5.25's were used, so the only real difference between the two should be the crossover, we'll see

The fine print on the PE tritrix kit page allows comparable part substitutions, and 4 and 8 ohm drivers are priced the same!

**evilskillit** · **10-12-09, 11:51 PM**

Awesome, that works out well for you, good luck with your project and let us all know how it works out for you. I can't wait to see the results

**EdmundGTP** · **10-15-09, 01:36 AM**

I have a pair of Klipsch KSP-400's which look to be essentially what you're trying to accomplish.

Word of caution about combining subs with your two main speakers. Everyone knows that positioning of your main (stereo) speakers relative to your listening position (sweet spot) is critical for imaging and soundstage etc. And once you figure out those relative positions they're pretty much set in stone (or carpet). There is a major draw back to having your sub system co-exist in position with your main speakers, and that is the fact that you won't be able move the subs to a point in the room where THEY sound the best. They're "stuck" where the mains are and wherever that ends up being could be a spot which negatively impacts your bass response. I have a very odd shaped room and in order to get the powered subs in my KSP towers to sound decent at my listening position, it required significant equalizing. Conversely, if I had the ability to move the sub(s) independently of the mains, shifting them just a few feet along one of the walls would have cut my EQ needs to a bare minimum or perhaps even made them nonexistent.

Just something to consider.

**ironglen** · **10-15-09, 02:07 AM**

That's an excellent point. I'm hoping a couple features will help with those issues: I'm using 12" subs that can produce plenty of spl since they likely won't benefit from good corner loading and I'm also (shh, top secret

) porting the sub chamber with 2 ports, with a 25hz tune, 18hz tune, and a usable sealed mode so I have some control on response and output- hopefully it will be enough!

I'm hoping for the best as I'll have ~$400 tied up in the complete passive speaker, plus the 285w/ch sub amp for $120 for just over $500 for the pair.

**EdmundGTP** · **10-15-09, 02:40 AM**

You might get lucky. Though each of the subs will probably produce suitable SPL across the sub frequency range, I suspect you might run into trouble with certain frequencies canceling each other out or reinforcing each other excessively. Again this is highly dependent on location and room geometry. In my particular case I had a nasty dip at about 42hz and at 75hz, but a significant spike around 60hz as measured at the listening position. This was very noticeable by ear alone, and at the same time I could walk to other places in the room where those peaks/dips weren't audibly obvious at all. Either way, I wish ya good luck. It's a legit project, and I hope it turns out well!

**evilskillit** · **10-15-09, 10:01 AM**

Yeah, with stereo subs, especially as speaker stands you sort of have a place picked out and hopefully they work there. I did a bit of reading and moved mine around my music room till I ended up with one against the back wall directly behind me, and one against the wall directly in front of me, myself being centered between the two. It sounds pretty flat, tho I have not measured them.

**ironglen** · **10-15-09, 04:50 PM**

Those are very nice towers, and a nice layout in whole.

My design will use a down-firing driver-hope that helps with the evenness.

Well, after looking extensively-the tritrix kit is a real recession buster, just as advertised; I've got a kit on the way

I hope to get to this sooner than later. With a footprint of only 14.5" diameter (which will be tight with the 12"), I'll FIND a place to put these if they turn out nice

**evilskillit** · **10-15-09, 07:51 PM**

Yeah the Tritrix kit is currently the deal of the century. I would like something a bit more reference level myself but you can't beat what you get for the price. As for doing a down firing sub that has its own set of issues, you lose excursion to gravity so its not ideal, plus I think it causes the suspension to wear out faster, after all its never recommended to store speakers flat. But some drivers handle it better than others, everyone here can help with that too. Either way I can't wait to see some pics of how it turns out.

**Tsloms** · **11-01-09, 05:19 PM**

If you currently have a sub you should probably set it in each of the prospective locations just to make sure that you do not have any bad room modes in those locations. It is possible that those locations could be bad for subs. Manufacturers integrate the subs into mains simply for convenience and not necessarily sound quality.

**ironglen** · **11-01-09, 05:35 PM**

I'm re-thinking the whole project:

Thanks to all of you guys with the VERY helpful suggestions and feedback. Hmm, what am I gonna do NOW???

**evilskillit** · **11-01-09, 07:41 PM**

I don't know, what ARE you going to do now? What parameters have changed and what new thing are you considering?

**ironglen** · **11-03-09, 01:11 AM**

Looking at my system, and reading a point by another member, I realize my mains are by far my weakest link. I have power to spare, and I would want a pair that could handle house-filling spl levels, but I'm not really sure what I need vs want, but I could: buy a pair of towers like these or these, or maybe sell my sole for these or my soul (all $2000 worth)for these. Or I could buy up several anarchy mids and plan to build a TMM or TMMM set once some plans are devised (maybe IF someone devised-no guarantee).

**evilskillit** · **11-03-09, 01:47 AM**

If you could swing 500-700 you could build a pair of these. I bet they rock the house pretty good.

Total woofage four 8" woofers and two 6" mids. Should offer plenty of output. High quality design too.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=15323

**ironglen** · **11-03-09, 01:56 AM**

That looks NICE-I'll take a further look. Not sure my craftmanship will even come close-I'll have to go gloss black or veneer if I build.

**evilskillit** · **11-03-09, 01:03 PM**

Actually the pictured speaker IS veneered I belive, with a gloss black back and top. If you check out the build thread you'll see more pictures.

**ironglen** · **11-03-09, 02:29 PM**

I don't know which thread it is- it looked like the thread had dozens of pages

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