4 18" 5400's and 8 passives "WOW!"

[cochinada]

robertcharles123 wrote:

First off, I made many attempts at modeling the subs.

1. I did 1 woofer and 2 passives in an enclosure, then 2 and then 4.

2. I layed each graph over the others and low and behold the only thing that changed was the sound pressure levels.

So, I made the box size the total volume of both enclosures, and used 4 woofers and 8 passives.

The power was set at 5000 watts input.

Like previously mentioned, the graph is basically a straight line from 200Hz-about 20Hz and then a gradual slope down -3 dB at 14.8 HZ and -5dB at 13.63 Hz

Parametric EQ set to 18 Hz Q of 1.00 Gain 5.0 dB.

HP Butterworth filter set at 15 Hz.

All of this was done with the 5000 watt input. The xmax was getting close at these levels.

I am currently going to run 2 Crown Itech 8000 amps on independant 220 volt circuits. I should have adequate power and control over the drivers. I also will probably never be able to test the total output of these guys as my home will probably be the limiting factor.

Any thoughts,

Robert

Hi Robert,

Strange you couldn't load my simulation. Anyway I made the changes as you wrote but I'm missing one value: FS for the PR so I used 10. By the way how can one adjust this in real life? If we were talking about ports I know it would be by changing the length and/or surface but with PR I have no clue...

If you still can't load my simulation I also present the graphs together with all settings. The main issues in my simulation are the Driver excursion for the driver that is above the maximum for f < 29.24Hz and the Group delay that is a little high for f < 20Hz but I think this is one not a problem.

As you can see I have no added mass for the driver although 50g would make the SPL curve almost perfect.

Here is the project -> 4 18in 5400's and 8 passives.wpr

Now the graphs:







Best Regards
Joaquim

[brandonnash]

robertcharles123 wrote:

Right now, I have 95 amps at 110 volts available for HT. I am going to run separate 220 lines for the crowns and maybe a whole new service depending on difficulty.

I'm gonna have to learn to do this myself. I've got a lot of electronics in my room too. I would imagine the cost of the parts to do it is not too expensive, just the learning curve of installing it?

Looking forward to the finished product. Gonna be great.

[robertcharles123]

cochinada wrote:

Hi Robert,

Strange you couldn't load my simulation. Anyway I made the changes as you wrote but I'm missing one value: FS for the PR so I used 10. By the way how can one adjust this in real life? If we were talking about ports I know it would be by changing the length and/or surface but with PR I have no clue...

If you still can't load my simulation I also present the graphs together with all settings. The main issues in my simulation are the Driver excursion for the driver that is above the maximum for f < 29.24Hz and the Group delay that is a little high for f < 20Hz but I think this is one not a problem.

As you can see I have no added mass for the driver although 50g would make the SPL curve almost perfect.

Here is the project -> Attachment 12447

Now the graphs:

Attachment 12440
Attachment 12443
Attachment 12446
Attachment 12445
Attachment 12444

Best Regards
Joaquim

My computers are acting up, but I am going over and comparing your numbers. I will get back to you.

[robertcharles123]

Your numbers on the PR's seem off.

Did you make them up or did the program calculate them.

Mine were calculated.

Vas .4155 m3

Qms 85.000

Fs 18.00Hz

Fs w/ mass 6.97 Hz

Sd .1150 m2

number of pr's 8

xmax .040m

added mass 2.000 kg



My numbers for the woofer were a little different, but not much. I will post them next.

[robertcharles123]

Woofer

Qes .383

Qms 13.010

Qts .372

Fs 18.7

Vas 215.5

Mms .575 kg

Cms .000126 m/N

Rms 5.19244

Re 3.98

BL 26.5

Dd .374


Sd .1098 m2

xmax .038 m

Vd .0042 m3

no .3578

Znom 6.00
USPL 90.73

SPL 87.69

voicecoils 2

parallel

[Jugix]

Thanks for the right parameters! I really like what Unibox is giving me now! 126dB levels all the way down to 15Hz. After that woofers lose controll but who cares anyways! I bet in-room SPL will rise nicely above 130dB and closer to 10Hz.

[cochinada]

robertcharles123 wrote:

Your numbers on the PR's seem off.

Did you make them up or did the program calculate them.

Mine were calculated.

My numbers for the woofer were a little different, but not much. I will post them next.

Some I made up, based on the LMS-Ultra 18" driver. I also couldn't get the LMS-5400 so I used the current Ultra.

Now I began from scratch with all your driver and PR parameters, 2 drivers and 4 PR's, 19.8 ft^3, 2000g added mass for PR, 5000 W, filters HP (Butterwoth, 15Hz) and Parametric EQ (18Hz, Q=1, Gain=+5dB). I think I'm not missing anything now and all the values are like you wrote so here is my newest model:

4 18in LMS-5400's and 8 passives.wpr

SPL looks awesome, straight at 127dB until 20Hz but cone excursion for the driver and PR is beyond the limits See for yourself:

[redliner]

I'm thinking he's using 5000 watts for 4 drivers, where you're using 5000 for only 2 drivers?

[cochinada]

redliner wrote:

I'm thinking he's using 5000 watts for 4 drivers, where you're using 5000 for only 2 drivers?

Perhaps that's it but I was under the impression he had two Crown amplifiers, one for each box, each giving at least 5000W.

[Jugix]

Here is what UNIBOX had to say. I put 1000L box for this simulation.

[robertcharles123]

Because you are using 5000 watts for 2 drivers and I plugged in 5000 watts for 4 drivers. Use 4 drivers and 8 passives with double the box volume and you will get what I got.

[robertcharles123]

I have 2 crown Itech 8000 amps. I will probably not be able to use near all the power, but at least I won't be underpowered.

Thanks,

Robert

[robertcharles123]

Jugix wrote:

Here is what UNIBOX had to say. I put 1000L box for this simulation.

Did you use HPF and parametric eq.

With input levels this high and frequencies so low, you need to limit the woofer and let the passives do the rest.

[Jugix]

robertcharles123 wrote:

Did you use HPF and parametric eq.

With input levels this high and frequencies so low, you need to limit the woofer and let the passives do the rest.

There is no HPF or EQ added to my simulation.

[cochinada]

robertcharles123 wrote:

Because you are using 5000 watts for 2 drivers and I plugged in 5000 watts for 4 drivers. Use 4 drivers and 8 passives with double the box volume and you will get what I got.

Ok, I've done this and here is what I got:





Is this what you got?
By the way, maybe this is a silly question but is OK to make the simulation with the total drivers and double the volume of each box you are using and then just split everything in half?

[Jugix]

cochinada wrote:

By the way, maybe this is a silly question but is OK to make the simulation with the total drivers and double the volume of each box you are using and then just split everything in half?

It does not matter how you simulate it, because it is allways the same. 1AR+2PR x 4 or 4AR+8PR it is all the same.

[robertcharles123]

cochinada wrote:

Ok, I've done this and here is what I got:

Attachment 12481
Attachment 12482
Attachment 12483

Is this what you got?
By the way, maybe this is a silly question but is OK to make the simulation with the total drivers and double the volume of each box you are using and then just split everything in half?

That is it. Aittle adjustment on the parametric and it stays within specs at that power or reduce the power

[robertcharles123]

brandonnash wrote:

I'm gonna have to learn to do this myself. I've got a lot of electronics in my room too. I would imagine the cost of the parts to do it is not too expensive, just the learning curve of installing it?

Looking forward to the finished product. Gonna be great.

The parts for the electric upgrade are fairly cost effective, but a few months back, the cabling to run a 125 amp service over 80 feet could have run into the $500.00- $1000.00 range for the cabling alone. Prices have dropped considerably.

I currently have a 200 amp service on the main portion of my house and a 125 amp sub panel for the HT and my bedroom/bath. I have 95 amps going to the HT equip, but have mostly used it up. I have electrical experience, but, my father and brother are very skilled at electrical. It is just trying to explain why I need so much power going to a "radio". They just don't get it. Regardless, the upgrades are going to be performed one way or another.


good luck,

Robert

[robertcharles123]

Primed and ready.













Thanks,

Robert

[Warpdrv]

Good lord robert.....

The things you have to build just to build your speakers is unbelievable...

[robertcharles123]

Warp,


No doubt about that.

Just moving these things just a few feet without beating them up by myself is a feat in itself.

It was Mardi Gras around here, so no work for me, just bringing the family to the parades. Hopefully, tomorrow morning-first thing. I am going to that garage, tack those things down and shoot black until the cows come home. At least that is the plan.

Wish me luck,

Robert

[cochinada]

This is absolutely awesome! I bet you can't wait to see these beasts growling on your living room. I know if I were on your shoes I couldn't...

[robertcharles123]

You bet. I can hardly wait until tomorrow to get the black on the baffles.

I want to see that primer gray disappear soon.

Thanks,

Robert

[robertcharles123]

Paint is in progress!

[cochinada]

Great!