which appropriate driver

**v1rtu0s1ty** · **02-27-08, 10:35 AM**

Are sealed subs called the LLTs? Which 12" driver brands are appropriate for sealed subs than can do well in the 18hz and above?

It's because I am seeing tons of guys selling their 12" on craiglist 2 weeks ago. Someone was selling his 2 12" for $40. It was a sub for his car. I don't know if that will be good for HT.

Thanks.

EDIT: Thanks for link.

**BoomieMCT** · **02-27-08, 10:40 AM**

Quote:

v1rtu0s1ty wrote:

Are sealed subs called the LLTs? Which 12" driver brands are appropriate for sealed subs than can do well in the 18hz and above?

Thanks.

No, LLT stands for "Large Low Tune". They are basically a large EBS enclosure. You can read more about them here.

As far as driver selection, you can't do it just by brand. Each brand makes a wide variety of models. That being said there are not many 12" drivers that will do well at 18Hz in a sealed enclosure. To do that you'd need a lot of EQing which translates to a lot of power handling and excursion.

Just out of curiosity, why are you picking a 18Hz performance point? Why are you limited to sealed enclosures? How big is your room? What SPL do you intend to get at 18Hz? How much are you looking to spend?

Anyhoo - chances are a 12" car sub will probably not be good for 18Hz, especially in a sealed enclosure.

**v1rtu0s1ty** · **02-27-08, 10:48 AM**

It's because, I'm thinking of building one just for the family room. I already have the other one and that is for my HT. The one I built is for IB setup. I don't want to cut a big hole in the family room for an IB. I had SVS 20-39Pci before but I sold it to get two FiCar 18" audio. But I am thinking now a different brand. My SVS was a 12" but it was ok. Is my SVS an LLT design?

I saw the RL splinter driver and they are really handsome.

Family room is 13'x19'. I don't like the commercial sealed ones sold around $99-$120. They're boomy.

EDIT:

Regarding your question about why I picked 18Hz. I'm really not sure. It's because when I first owned a sub, it mentioned in the specs that it can go as low as 18hz. It was the svs 20-39pci, my first sub. Do you have recommended/ideal low frequency though for a sub with the specs I'm looking for? 12hz? 15hz?
Thanks.

**BoomieMCT** · **02-27-08, 11:07 AM**

Is this for music or movies? While some movies have content down to 18Hz, unless you are a big pipe organ fan you have no need to go that low for music. For a music sub 35-40 Hz is all you really need. This becomes important because each time you go down an octave you quadruple the amount of power and displacement needed for the same SPL. So for a sealed sub to hit 18Hz will require four times the xmax and four times the watts as a similar sub that only goes to 35-40 Hz. Some of these rules-of-thumb can be pushed by using porting but subsonic sound is still difficult and expensive to do.

All that being said - I'd be very surprised if ANY sub can hit 18Hz with any kind of authority for $120. The only sealed sub close to a 12" that can go that low that I know of is the JL Fathom and it costs several thousand dollars.

**v1rtu0s1ty** · **02-27-08, 11:20 AM**

It'll be 50% for both music/movies. I get scared when I see words like xmax. It's way too much for me. I don't understand it.

I have to do more readings.

Anyways, I was hoping I can build a sub with a box dimension of 20"x20"x20". Is that possible? And which size of driver is appropriate for this dimension? It doesn't really have to shake the family room. As long as there is good clean/tight bass, that's good enough. And lastly, I'm on budget for the driver as well. Are there 15"chers that are around $50-$80 but is known to perform really well?

Thanks.

**Mike P.** · **02-27-08, 02:58 PM**

50% for both music/movies, performs really well in a 20 inch cube, and costs $50-$80. You don't ask much!

The best I can think of would be a Mach 5 Audio Maw-12 in a ported box and would cost $96 shipped to your door. If this would be over your budget, maybe someone else can suggest something, as I can't think of anything else that would meet your requirements.

**BoomieMCT** · **02-27-08, 03:02 PM**

What was that rebadged dB-500, the Minstral or something? That would work well.

**v1rtu0s1ty** · **02-27-08, 03:54 PM**

Thanks guys! I'll look at it. Oh, where is Mach's link? What about B-500, the Minstral, what is their link?

**Mike P.** · **02-27-08, 03:58 PM**

Mach 5 Audio has a link on the bottom of this page and the "Mistral" is here:

http://www.torrentaudio.com/mistral12dvc-p-73.html

**v1rtu0s1ty** · **02-27-08, 04:15 PM**

So am I correct guys that Mistral is different from Maw-12?

**v1rtu0s1ty** · **02-27-08, 04:21 PM**

I had the SVS 20-39Pci. I'm sure it was 12" too. Does it match the performance?

**BoomieMCT** · **02-27-08, 04:24 PM**

Quote:

v1rtu0s1ty wrote:

So am I correct guys that Mistral is different from Maw-12?

Correct, they are different.

Minstral / Maw-12
Cost $89 + s/h, $96 + s/h
Fs 24.7Hz, 23.3Hz
xmax 20mm*, 13mm
efficiency 86dB, 87dB

* from memory of the dB-500. Please correct if I'm wrong.

**Mike P.** · **02-27-08, 04:44 PM**

If the Mistral is the same specs as the DB-500 then the xmax is 20mm. All prices from Mach5, however, include shipping to your door.

**v1rtu0s1ty** · **02-27-08, 04:47 PM**

ok, let say I've got either drivers. Can I just buy the MDF and start cutting? Or is there a software that I should us that will make the model for me?

**BoomieMCT** · **02-27-08, 04:56 PM**

Quote:

v1rtu0s1ty wrote:

ok, let say I've got either drivers. Can I just buy the MDF and start cutting? Or is there a software that I should us that will make the model for me?

First off I'd browse these fora and see what other people are doing and things you should look out for. Then I'd pick an enclosure (sealed, ported, etc.) a tuning and use a modelling program (WinISD or Unibox - both free) to see what works well. THEN I'd get the MDF, plywood or sonotube and go to town. Also don't forget you need an amp to power this.

**BoomieMCT** · **02-27-08, 04:56 PM**

Quote:

Mike P. wrote:

If the Mistral is the same specs as the DB-500 then the xmax is 20mm. All prices from Mach5, however, include shipping to your door.

Is S/H included for orders to the US? Last time I looked at buying from Mach5 (a while ago) it was not included.

**Mike P.** · **02-27-08, 05:23 PM**

As far as I know the prices now include shipping in North America. I sent a PM to ask to make sure.

**v1rtu0s1ty** · **02-27-08, 05:28 PM**

I'll do my assignment first. Any suggestion of what build thread to read? Maybe ported design build thread and just single driver

**Mike P.** · **02-27-08, 05:59 PM**

Look in the "Members Subwoofer Database" for a build thread around 4 cubic feet. That should give you some ideas.

**BoomieMCT** · **02-27-08, 05:59 PM**

Quote:

v1rtu0s1ty wrote:

I'll do my assignment first. Any suggestion of what build thread to read? Maybe ported design build thread and just single driver

Yup - find some subs in this thread that you like and use them for ideas / inspiration.

**v1rtu0s1ty** · **02-27-08, 08:18 PM**

Thank you so much BoomieMCT.

**v1rtu0s1ty** · **02-27-08, 08:50 PM**

Quote:

Mike P. wrote:

Mach 5 Audio has a link on the bottom of this page and the "Mistral" is here:

http://www.torrentaudio.com/mistral12dvc-p-73.html

Is TorrentAudio also referred to as TS Sound?

**Mike P.** · **02-27-08, 11:36 PM**

Quote:

v1rtu0s1ty wrote:

Is TorrentAudio also referred to as TC Sound?

TC Sounds built the subs for Torrent Audio.

**v1rtu0s1ty** · **02-28-08, 01:43 PM**

I chatted with Mark of Mach Audio and he was so nice and honest. He said that Minstral is really a good sub according to the requirements I am looking for.

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