DIY similar to a Velo SPL1500/DD15, Revel B15 or Fathom F113 (sealed)???

[rodH]

OK, so I have been looking for a new subwoofer and was looking at some of the sealed designs from JL Audio, Velodyne and Revel. I really really like the sound of some of these subs and I think I want to go with a sealed design.

I am going to purchase the Velodyne SC1250 amp with active EQ to make the EQ part of it easy. I guess with that amp, It can EQ up to 2 seperate drivers, so if I make one with an 8 ohm imp, I could add another later. I was just planning on getting the Velodyne SC15 subwoofer (passive), but I figured I could build something just as good for less (they retail for $1000).

I was looking for a simple set up, like just purchasing a SEALED enclosure from PE or someone else and dropping a really nice 15" driver. Since I will already have the AMP, this gives me about $300 or so I can spend on a driver, which figure I could end up with something similar or even better than the stock drivers in the JL, Velo, etc...

Like I mentioned, I would like a sealed design, a smaller enclosure for a room that is about 4000 cu feet.

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP, I am new to DIY home audio, so any advice is appreciated!!

[BoomieMCT]

Let me do some expectation managment. Given the size of your room a single sealed sub probably won't cut it - especially not one in a small enclosure. Off the top of my head I'd say you'd need at least two 15" subs and ported might work better here as you won't be getting much room gain. Also for $300 you aren't going to match a Fathom.

If you are hung up on sealed and can stretch your budget I'd buy two Tempest-X sub drivers ($350) to use with that amp and put each in at least a 3 cubic foot sealed enclosure with a lot of polyfill. These subs use the same frames as the 15" Dayton Titanics so they should be a drop-in fit for the PE cabinets.

I am a bit hesitant to make recommendations though as I can't find any specs for the impedence of Velodyne's passive subs. I would assume they are 4 ohm but I can't be sure and you know what they say about assumptions.

[mike c]

rodH wrote:

I am going to purchase the Velodyne SC1250 amp with active EQ to make the EQ part of it easy. I guess with that amp, It can EQ up to 2 seperate drivers, so if I make one with an 8 ohm imp, I could add another later. I was just planning on getting the Velodyne SC15 subwoofer (passive), but I figured I could build something just as good for less (they retail for $1000).

IMO, a Behringer EP2500 + Velodyne SMS-1 would be a much better buy for your 1000USD

[mike c]

BoomieMCT wrote:

I am a bit hesitant to make recommendations though as I can't find any specs for the impedence of Velodyne's passive subs. I would assume they are 4 ohm but I can't be sure and you know what they say about assumptions.

wild guess ... 8 ohms each. because they say you can use up to 2 SC drivers for a total of 4 ohms load on the amp.

[rodH]

I have a room about 4000 cu ft, already have access to a 1200w amp w/ crossover, but now I need a sub and box.

It looks like I can get sealed enclosures pretty cheap at PE in 2.0, 2.5 or 3.0 cu ft sizes.

The room I am using it in is just under 4000 cu ft, and I listen to more music VS Home theater. Performance wise, I would like to get something similar to a JL F113 or Revel B15.

Anyone have any recommendations below the $300 range for the driver alone?

Thanks in advance, I am new to this.

[a1161979]

mike c wrote:

IMO, a Behringer EP2500 + Velodyne SMS-1 would be a much better buy for your 1000USD

Very ture, i think Mike hit it on the head And if you buy a BFD and use REW you will save more and allow more money for the Drivers Not to mention the Ep sould out perform the Velo amplifier by a long shot

[rodH]

mike c wrote:

wild guess ... 8 ohms each. because they say you can use up to 2 SC drivers for a total of 4 ohms load on the amp.

yes, they are 8 ohms

[rodH]

a1161979 wrote:

Very ture, i think Mike hit it on the head And if you buy a BFD and use REW you will save more and allow more money for the Drivers Not to mention the Ep sould out perform the Velo amplifier by a long shot

I am not paying full retail or close to full retail on the SC1250, otherwise I think you are right.

How about (1) 18" driver??

or maybe (2) 12" drivers?

btw, the Sub is corner loaded and right next to the listening area, if that matters.

[a1161979]

rodH wrote:

I am not paying full retail or close to full retail on the SC1250, otherwise I think you are right.

How about (1) 18" driver??

or maybe (2) 12" drivers?

Could two Mach IXL 18,s fit the budget? That would give a fathom a real good run for the money... Mind you $500 in drivers (including shipping last time i checked) is a fair amound considering probably $370 for two Tempest X drivers

[rodH]

a1161979 wrote:

Could two Mach IXL 18,s fit the budget? That would give a fathom a real good run for the money... Mind you $500 in drivers (including shipping last time i checked) is a fair amound considering probably $370 for two Tempest X drivers

(2) 18"......WOW, are you serious? The fathom only uses (1) 13" are they doing something magical that makes it necessary to run (2) 18" drivers just to give it a run for the money???

[a1161979]

rodH wrote:

(2) 18"......WOW, are you serious? The fathom only uses (1) 13" are they doing something magical that makes it necessary to run (2) 18" drivers just to give it a run for the money???

Well the Fathom is eqed and probably has LOTS of development time so that everything is optimised to work as one unit... Taking two 18's an pro amp and a PA EQ isnt really the same thing

Then again two 18 with 100L each sealed with LOT of grunt and EQ'ed should perform much better than a fathom (read MUCH better) simply due to the larger displacement

Note: There is a similar thread on AVS that compairs the fathom to DIY and it got nasty with the DIY vs JL fanboy crowd... lets not start this agin but i simply believe in HT displacement is king and for that reason a DIY sub with larger drivers should perform better if set up properly that a comercial sub ok

[rodH]

a1161979 wrote:

Well the Fathom is eqed and probably has LOTS of development time so that everything is optimised to work as one unit... Taking two 18's an pro amp and a PA EQ isnt really the same thing

Then again two 18 with 100L each sealed with LOT of grunt and EQ'ed should perform much better than a fathom (read MUCH better) simply due to the larger displacement

Note: There is a similar thread on AVS that compairs the fathom to DIY and it got nasty with the DIY vs JL fanboy crowd... lets not start this agin but i simply believe in HT displacement is king and for that reason a DIY sub with larger drivers should perform better if set up properly that a comercial sub ok

Is it this thread? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3&page=6&pp=30

Lots of heat there, interesting.

btw, I am not trying to "challange" the JL, just something with a similar concept and sound quality.

[a1161979]

rodH wrote:

Is it this thread? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3&page=6&pp=30

Lots of heat there, interesting.

btw, I am not trying to "challange" the JL, just something with a similar concept and sound quality.

Thanks for the link but i was thinking of this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=736243 is 120 pages long but boy oh boy are there some interesting view expressed Including the argument that more drivers with less excursion will better the performance (less distortion) than one small extreme excursion driver like the Fathom, which some people debated

The above thread is great however... Craigsub has but his money where his mouth is and promised 3 grand to anyone who can build a sub to same dimensions and finish as the JL but better in performance (the box must include Eq and other features of the Fathom such as a no resonance box etc)

Although it might end the debate it is kinda pointless because given many like bigger boxes... Some how i think any decent 15 driver (read sound splinter, TC, Mach 5 etc) in a large ported encloure will match if not out performe the Fathom at less cost, then again it will be bigger and the finish wont be as good etc etc

[a1161979]

Your not going to get JL performance for this little... Granted it cannot be done

As far as that kind of performance you should look at Sounssplinters 15 (cant remember model) which sells for around $550 or a TC sounds 15. Either driver should be in around 100L or more sealed powered with an EP2500 bridgged

Also i wouldnt use the PE boxes simply because the quaility isnt that good and with some homework you can build something Much better and suited to your needs

[a1161979]

As far as my advice... I would look at an RLP15 for $330 or if you can afford space two Tempest X for $350 or if you can afford an 18 then a IXL Mach audio 18 for $250 however this doesnt include shipping... Next the box, well if/when you get a driver we can help you design a box, then simply get a cabinet maker to cut the sheets to size then screw and glue it together (obviously its a little more complicated but for the time being this is enough)

You will need a BFD $150 and an EP2500 for about $350/400

Edit: just thought... the IXL 15's are a good driver and are selling for $210... Not JL performance but in a sealed/vented box it should provide good bass for any HT

[BoomieMCT]

Fathom or no, I don't think a single Fathom would fill 4000 cubic feet. I think two 15" or 18" subs are your best bet. If you want small enclosures (and this is a reletave term) I'd see if two Tempest-X's fit the bill.

[a1161979]

BoomieMCT wrote:

Fathom or no, I don't think a single Fathom would fill 4000 cubic feet. I think two 15" or 18" subs are your best bet. If you want small enclosures (and this is a reletave term) I'd see if two Tempest-X's fit the bill.

Maybe im wrong but the Tempest love LARGE boxes, i think get to get a Q of 7 you need 200L sealed

Yep... 200L = Q.7 http://www.diycable.com/main/pdf/tempest.pdf Maybe the tempest arnt the best for a small sub

Also depending on the room and application a Fathon could survive in a 4000cf room... It just depends on many things

[BoomieMCT]

I was going off the smallest recommended enclosure from the DIYcable website. I acknowledge it isn't ideal but the fact of the matter is with 4000 cubic feet you really can't have a small enclosure without making some compromises. With a $300 budget there are really not any good small options that will get the job done.

[a1161979]

BoomieMCT wrote:

I was going off the smallest recommended enclosure from the DIYcable website. I acknowledge it isn't ideal but the fact of the matter is with 4000 cubic feet you really can't have a small enclosure without making some compromises. With a $300 budget there are really not any good small options that will get the job done.

True... I do think one IXL18 in an LLT and a PA amplifier could come close, dont forget the 300 is for a driver... The total budget is 'less' than $1000

IXL $250... EP1500 $300... MDF $100 (for the box as a guess cause im in Aus and have not idea about MDF in US) so thats $650 leaving enough for some paint, a BFD and a SPL meter

[BoomieMCT]

a1161979 wrote:

True... I do think one IXL18 in an LLT and a PA amplifier could come close, dont forget the 300 is for a driver... The total budget is 'less' than $1000

IXL $250... EP1500 $300... MDF $100 (for the box as a guess cause im in Aus and have not idea about MDF in US) so thats $650 leaving enough for some paint, a BFD and a SPL meter

This is possible - I can run the numbers when I get home. There are a few issues though;

1. The IXL18 also wants a huge cabinet - especially in an LLT.
2. rodH specified sealed enclosures.
3. I'm still not sure if a single 18" will get the job done. Two Tempest-X's will have almost twice the swept volume as a single IXL-18 (more surface area, more xmax) and I'm on the fence if two Tempest-X's are enough.

[a1161979]

BoomieMCT wrote:

This is possible - I can run the numbers when I get home. There are a few issues though;

1. The IXL18 also wants a huge cabinet - especially in an LLT.
2. rodH specified sealed enclosures.
3. I'm still not sure if a single 18" will get the job done. Two Tempest-X's will have almost twice the swept volume as a single IXL-18 (more surface area, more xmax) and I'm on the fence if two Tempest-X's are enough.

Yes but the Tempest would want a sealed enclosure while the IXL would benefit from the port gain in the lower frequencies and it would require less power

Two Tempest X's in 100L each are going to need some serious grunt compaired with a LLT IXL which despite its limited displace ment will be MUCH louder from 25hz to tuning frequency Now presuming he can fit it i think for HT a single IXL will be better... Plus in the future he can build another And it costs more than $100 less in drivers

[BoomieMCT]

rodH wrote:

OK, so I have been looking for a new