Anyone in So California that can measure my TSPs? Unidentified TC sounds sub

[rodH]

I know some people have those little units that PE sells to measure TSPs (or something similar) willing to let me drop by for a minute to measure my subs? If not is it common for a car audio dealer to have something like that?


OK, I am in a weird situation where I bought some speakers off of fleabay for a good price.

Here is the deal. He says they are TC2+ from Oaudio with an ECLIPSE logo, BUT they are NIB and came in Audiopulse boxes. Meaning, I know they are NOT Oaudio TC2+ speakers, they may not be actual eclipse version of the TC1000 because they were done a long time ago and these came with in Audiopulse boxes. I also understand that TC Sounds at the end just through some parts together and got rid of stuff, so this could be any variation on the TC1000/TC2+ plateform.

Here are the pictures: go to ebay and just type in item number 320235017731 and you can see the pictures.

Here is the information on the listing (the guy is going off of the Oaudio site for his info, but Oaudio doesn't think they are the same):

______________________________________________________________________

BNIB Pair of Eclipse, TC Sounds TC2+ 12" Subwoofers NR!

Brand New in Box, Dual 4 ohm voice coils. These are TC Sounds/AudioPulse built TC2+ subwoofers which are the same as the TC-1000 and identical to the new AudioPulse Epic which retails for over $250 each!

FS: 22.7Hz
SPL: 88.7Db
RMS: 400 watts (Can easily take 600 daily)
Xmax: 31mm peak-to-peak
Mounting Depth: 6.375"



Here is a link to a website with specs, remember, they're Dual 4 ohm. http://www.oaudio.com/TC2_PLUS.html
_____________________________________________________________________

[rodH]

PICTURES

[thxgoon]

Well I can't measure your speakers but those sure look like TC1000's

[rodH]

thxgoon wrote:

Well I can't measure your speakers but those sure look like TC1000's

Do all the TC1000s come with the same TSPs?

[thxgoon]

The TC1000 line was pretty short lived so from conception I don't think it ever saw a design change. I also read somewhere (now I can't remember where it was) that someone took apart an eclipse sub and it actually had a TC1000 sticker on it. Or maybe it was the other way around

[rodH]

thxgoon wrote:

The TC1000 line was pretty short lived so from conception I don't think it ever saw a design change. I also read somewhere (now I can't remember where it was) that someone took apart an eclipse sub and it actually had a TC1000 sticker on it. Or maybe it was the other way around

except the ECLIPSE I see with this design seem to have 3" voice coils, the TC1000 I think has a 2" VC, and this picture looks more like a 2" not a 3" (My guess).

[rodH]

Here is the 88120DVC, the magnet looks different, and the Voice Coil definately looks bigger:




MINE:

[rodH]

Here is the other Eclipse that is supposed to be made by TC sounds, I actually did find the specs on this and it does in fact have the 3" Voice Coil and a different magnet it is a SW8122DVC (newer version of the 88120DVC).

[rodH]

Here is a small picture of an actual TC1000 (notice the VC size and magnet size and shape)

[rodH]

Some information I found on an ebay auction in the Philipines on the TC1000 (not avail on the TC sounds sight any longer):

TC Sounds Subwoofer Driver
TC-1000 Dual 4Ω voice coil

From The Manufacturer
The accurate, smooth and historic TC driver

The TC-1000 is the ideal driver for anyone looking for powerful clean bass with superb quality for either the home or mobile environment. With a standard 135 ounce magnet structure, 2" wide all aluminum 4 layer voice coil, and up to 1.5" of highly linear excursion, this driver simply obliterates the competition. Its innate low distortion quality makes it seemly intended for high fidelity applications, but because of its high efficiency, impressive power handling and class leading displacement, the TC-1000 simply embarrasses retail SPL drivers costing twice the price with motors half its size! It can handle 400 watts of continuous power, but don’t be afraid to feed it 1000 clean watts as the voice coil will harness that power and deliver surprising sound pressure levels. With adequate headroom, the dynamic capability of the TC-1000 will demonstrate ultra high quality bass typically found in high end home theater subwoofers. Did we mention we even hand build these drivers in California too?

The TC-1000 subwoofers are engineered for sealed, ported or passive box enclosures and designed with medium to high power capabilities in mind. We recommend an amplifier between 200 and 1000 watts RMS per driver.

Advanced high excursion soft part system

• High excursion 8.0" linear roll poly-cotton spider
• Intergraded woven leads to prevent lead-slap
• 2" diameter, 4-layer aluminum wire voice coil with an anodized aluminum former
• Single or dual 3.7Ω (4 ohm nominal) voice coil configuration
• Lightweight brushed and powder coated aluminum cone
• 1" wide long throw, highly durable NBR surround
• High quality thermal flexible epoxies to ensure longevity which can't match the TC-1000's distortion vs. SPL performance...

Performance
• Effective motor force of 60 Newtons2 per watt (BL2/Re)
• 400 watts continuous power (1200 watts peak)
• 24mm BL XMax (voice coil, one-way)
• 37mm XMech (mechanically limited, one-way)

Key Features
• 60 Newtons2/watt Motor Force
• 400 Watts Sustained Power
• 2" Anodized Aluminum Voice Coil
• 24mm XMax
• Single Dish Aluminum Cone
• High Excursion 1" NBR Surround
• 135 Ounce Magnet Structure
• Copper Shorting Ring
• Cast Aluminum Frame
• 8.0" Diameter Suspension System

Dimensions

Driver 12TC-1000
Cutout Diameter 11.05"
Basket Diameter 12.65
Gasket Height 0.65"
Mounting Depth 6.25"
Displacement 0.09 ft3
Weight 19.9 lbs

Specifications

12" TC-1000

Qts
0.282
Qes
0.305
Qms
3.78
Fs
19hz
Res
3.70Ω
Ls
2.38mH
Lp
3.51mH
Rp
2.99Ω
Dia
240mm
Vas
132l
mms
153g
cms
460um/N
bl
15.4T*m
Spl
86.9dB

[rodH]

another pic of the TC1000

[rodH]

and a picture and TSPs for the Audiopulse Epic (TC1000)



Thilo Stompler of TC Sounds raises German engineering to a new level by creating the Audiopulse line. When designing the ultimate subwoofer system, it's important to choose the right driver. Whether your bass driver application is for a car, home theater, or professional sound reinforcement, Audiopulse offers solutions for just about every price and performance level.

The EPIC is redefining "entry driver" with a reference product, by delivering world-class displacement and low-distortion at an affordable price. Matched with as little as 300 watts, EPIC delivers substantial, ultra clean low frequency bass that will surprise even the most critical audiophiles.

Specifications: *Power handling: 600 watts RMS

*VCdia: 2"
*Impedance: 4 ohms per coil
*Re: 7.6 ohms (series)
*Fs: 23 Hz *SPL: 86.1 dB 1W/1m
*Magnet weight: 140 oz
*CMS: 280 uM/N
*Mms: 165 g
*BL: 19.8 Tm
*Sd: 0.050 sq. m
*Vas: 1.62 cu. ft.
*Qms: 3.90
*Qes: .45
*Qts: .42
*Xmax: 22 mm
*Dimensions: Overall diameter: 12.60", Cutout diameter: 11.05", Mounting depth: 6.21".

* Dual 4 ohm voice coils
* High temp voice coil former
* Long throw 2" voice coils
* 8" linear suspension system
* Large 2.5" shorting ring
* One piece anodized aluminum cone
* High BL promotes small box design
* Metallic clear blue triple layer powder coated frame

[rodH]

SO, after comparing the pictures, it appears to me that these are FOR sure some variation of the TC1000/Audiopulse epic. The problem is, which one is it, they claim to be basically the same thing, but even the audiopulse epic and the TC1000 TSPs are different and even PE when they were selling both, said the TC1000 is the same as the Epic (but still listed different TSPs) ?????

[rodH]

Picture of PE version of TC1000:



TSPs

[rodH]

WHY DO THE TSPs seem to be ALL OVER THE PLACE???? Am I worrying to much about it, are they all just close enough that it doesn't matter??? Seems odd.

[rodH]

and these are the TSPs when PE actually had them listed on the site (pretty close to the ones above):

Specifications: *Power handling: 600 watts RMS
*VCdia: 2"
*Le: 2.49 mH
*Impedance: 2 ohms per coil
*Re: 4.2 ohms (coils wired in series)
*Frequency range: 21-500 Hz
*Fs: 21 Hz
*SPL: 89.3 dB 2.83 V/1m
*Vas: 4.66 cu. ft.
*Qms: 4.25
*Qes: 0.41
*Qts: 0.38
*Xmax: 22 mm
*Dimensions: Overall diameter: 12-5/8", Cutout diameter: 11-1/16", Mounting depth: 6-1/4".

[Robert_J]

rodH wrote:

WHY DO THE TSPs seem to be ALL OVER THE PLACE????

Different coils? Just because they are 2" in diameter doesn't mean that they don't use different length windings, different materials (aluminum or copper) or different types of wire (round, flat, etc). Spiders of different materials/compliance. Different weight of the cone. Surrounds with different compliance. Change one thing and it can impact multiple paramters. How much is anyone's guess.

rodH wrote:

Am I worrying to much about it, are they all just close enough that it doesn't matter???

It could make a huge difference. You can go back to the TC2+ versions from Stryke or Audiomobile and their T/S parameters are completely different as well.

Try DIYMobileAudio forum owner npdang. I know he is in CA but just not sure where. He can run your subs through his Klippel system. I'd do it but shipping to MS would be at least $20 each way. It only takes about 10 seconds with Woofer Tester 3.

-Robert

[Warmon]

I'd do it but shipping to MS would be at least $20 each way. It only takes about 10 seconds with Woofer Tester 3.

Maybe you could rent the WT3 to him for a nominal fee with deposit? It would be nice if The Shack had a couple of these to rent out to DIY'rs and someone to run the program.

[rodH]

Robert_J wrote:

Different coils? Just because they are 2" in diameter doesn't mean that they don't use different length windings, different materials (aluminum or copper) or different types of wire (round, flat, etc). Spiders of different materials/compliance. Different weight of the cone. Surrounds with different compliance. Change one thing and it can impact multiple paramters. How much is anyone's guess.

It could make a huge difference. You can go back to the TC2+ versions from Stryke or Audiomobile and their T/S parameters are completely different as well.

Try DIYMobileAudio forum owner npdang. I know he is in CA but just not sure where. He can run your subs through his Klippel system. I'd do it but shipping to MS would be at least $20 each way. It only takes about 10 seconds with Woofer Tester 3.

-Robert

WOW, lots of variables.

I just emailed npdang, looks like he lives in Tustin (only about 15 min from me). Hopefully I can get some help. Thanks

[rodH]

Dang, no reply yet.

Anyone else?

[Ricci]

I would say either get the WFT3, or just build it using the TC1000 specs. Didn't you decide to go sealed anyway? Sealed is really forgiving and there is always variation from the mfg TSP's.

[rodH]

Ricci wrote:

I would say either get the WFT3, or just build it using the TC1000 specs. Didn't you decide to go sealed anyway? Sealed is really forgiving and there is always variation from the mfg TSP's.

OK, so I know the approx profile I am looking at I was wondering if a sub that is 5.78 cu ft internal volume is much different than 4.3 cu ft? Both drivers are facing forward.

I am looking at as LARGE as HWD 30X17X27 which gives me the volume of 5.78 (before polyfill)

and as small as HWD 29X15X23 which gives 3.97 cu ft.

So with heavy fill, we are looking at about 4.76 to 6.94 cu ft.

NOW I just need to figure out the TSPs to go with (approx) from the different VERSIONS of the TC1000 (all 4 ohm DVC)

PE Blowout TC1000 DVC

Specifications: *Power handling: 600 watts RMS
*VCdia: 2"
*Le: 2.49 mH
*Impedance: 2 ohms per coil
*Re: 4.2 ohms (coils wired in series)
*Frequency range: 21-500 Hz
*Fs: 21 Hz
*SPL: 89.3 dB 2.83 V/1m
*Vas: 4.66 cu. ft.
*Qms: 4.25
*Qes: 0.41
*Qts: 0.38
*Xmax: 22 mm
*Dimensions: Overall diameter: 12-5/8", Cutout diameter: 11-1/16", Mounting depth: 6-1/4".

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PE Audiopulse epic

Specifications: *Power handling: 600 watts RMS

*VCdia: 2"
*Impedance: 4 ohms per coil
*Re: 7.6 ohms (series)
*Fs: 23 Hz *SPL: 86.1 dB 1W/1m
*Magnet weight: 140 oz
*CMS: 280 uM/N
*Mms: 165 g
*BL: 19.8 Tm
*Sd: 0.050 sq. m
*Vas: 1.62 cu. ft.
*Qms: 3.90
*Qes: .45
*Qts: .42
*Xmax: 22 mm
*Dimensions: Overall diameter: 12.60", Cutout diameter: 11.05", Mounting depth: 6.21".

* Dual 4 ohm voice coils
* High temp voice coil former
* Long throw 2" voice coils
* 8" linear suspension system
* Large 2.5" shorting ring
* One piece anodized aluminum cone
* High BL promotes small box design
* Metallic clear blue triple layer powder coated frame

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another site showing the TSPs for the TC1000

• High excursion 8.0" linear roll poly-cotton spider
• Intergraded woven leads to prevent lead-slap
• 2" diameter, 4-layer aluminum wire voice coil with an anodized aluminum former
• Single or dual 3.7Ω (4 ohm nominal) voice coil configuration
• Lightweight brushed and powder coated aluminum cone
• 1" wide long throw, highly durable NBR surround
• High quality thermal flexible epoxies to ensure longevity which can't match the TC-1000's distortion vs. SPL performance...

Performance
• Effective motor force of 60 Newtons2 per watt (BL2/Re)
• 400 watts continuous power (1200 watts peak)
• 24mm BL XMax (voice coil, one-way)
• 37mm XMech (mechanically limited, one-way)

Key Features
• 60 Newtons2/watt Motor Force
• 400 Watts Sustained Power
• 2" Anodized Aluminum Voice Coil
• 24mm XMax
• Single Dish Aluminum Cone
• High Excursion 1" NBR Surround
• 135 Ounce Magnet Structure
• Copper Shorting Ring
• Cast Aluminum Frame
• 8.0" Diameter Suspension System

Dimensions

Driver 12TC-1000
Cutout Diameter 11.05"
Basket Diameter 12.65
Gasket Height 0.65"
Mounting Depth 6.25"
Displacement 0.09 ft3
Weight 19.9 lbs

Specifications

12" TC-1000

Qts 0.282
Qes 0.305
Qms 3.78
Fs 19hz
Res 3.70Ω
Ls 2.38mH
Lp 3.51mH
Rp 2.99Ω
Dia 240mm
Vas 132l
mms 153g
cms 460um/N
bl 15.4T*m
Spl 86.9dB

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oaudio.com version of TC1000

FS: 22.7Hz
SPL: 88.7Db
RMS: 400 watts
Xmax: 31mm peak-to-peak
Mounting Depth: 6.375"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The TSPs that some got from the PE buyout from the TS1000

t

[Ricci]

Sorry if I missed it but what are you powering them with? Was it the Velodyne plate amp?

[rodH]