Should I or should I not move from a 10" to an 18" ?

**SQBubble** · **03-20-08, 10:18 PM**

Replace my TC-10OEM 10" sealed to a AA hAvoc 18" sealed ? looking for louder, more efficient and still sound good like the TC-10OEM , smooth, robust lows and very ear friendly as in I don't get ear fatigue !

vs.

idk why but subs with big spiders makes the bass sound a lot more natural and transparent, is it just me that think like that? im afraid that im gonna do a heavy box with lot of work and end up having a not so good sounding sub ...

just want your opinions on what should I do, what do you guys think? will building a sealed for the 18" be a waste of time?

**Geoff St. Germain** · **03-20-08, 10:59 PM**

It's a good idea, the single 18" will have considerably more output than a pair of 10"s, even with the considerable Xmax that the TC-10 OEM has (especially for a 10"). However, I think that there are better choices than the Havoc, especially if HT is your application. The Havoc is really a driver optimized for car audio use.

**Mike P.** · **03-20-08, 11:46 PM**

Why sealed for the Havoc? It would produce a better low end output in a ported cabinet.

**Sonnie** · **03-20-08, 11:55 PM**

I've seen those...

I am wanting a 10" for my car, but those things are way too deep... I need something shallow.

Did you ever do any in room REW response measurements?

**SQBubble** · **03-21-08, 07:37 AM**

i ordered the ECM8000 and Tascam US-144 .. I will be doing the measurement soon, im very curious to see what FR I got.

Of course I would consider another 18" for home use, particularly the rl-p 18" ... the havoc is indeed optimized for car audio and thats what keeps me hesitating... I mentioned the havoc because I got one collecting dust its been near 6month ...

although when I was using it in my car, it sounded very tight and accurate with real output in 4.2cu.ft @36hz with 73sq.inch across the whole music bass range(30hz to 70hz) the slams and lows were amazing, but when I switched to the 2 10", these little sucker were noticeably louder on some frequency(probably due to the enclosure; 3.1cu.ft @40hz with 78sq.inch) but the driver itself sounded more transparent and good

bah...

**Mike P.** · **03-21-08, 10:36 AM**

If you already have the Havoc then use it, unless you really want the RL-p18.

**Ricci** · **03-21-08, 03:05 PM**

Actually most of the 18's people are using including the RLP are designed mostly with car audio in mind. That doesn't necessarily mean anything. I'd say go for it. the only thing is that the Havoc 18's like a pretty large sealed box. About 12 cuft for a Q of .707 if I remember right.

**Avus_M3** · **03-21-08, 04:29 PM**

That Havoc looks pretty beastly!

**mgboy** · **03-21-08, 11:15 PM**

Quote:

Ricci wrote:

I'd say go for it. the only thing is that the Havoc 18's like a pretty large sealed box. About 12 cuft for a Q of .707 if I remember right.

So throw it in a 4 cuft box with a LT circuit? Isn't the xmax on the havoc fairly substantial?

**SQBubble** · **03-22-08, 02:08 AM**

Quote:

mgboy wrote:

So throw it in a 4 cuft box with a LT circuit? Isn't the xmax on the havoc fairly substantial?

the xmax is 25mm, i also forgot to add that if I use the havoc it'll be in 5.5 to 6cu.ft NET, thats the biggest I can get, 1inch all around, 3inch baffle and braced.

could someone model the FR graph with winISD for me with 6cu.ft and 5.5cu.ft?

**Ricci** · **03-23-08, 11:14 AM**

Actually the xmax on the Havoc is listed at 30mm. If you can put it in a 6cuft box it will be fine. Just add a little eq, a lot of power, and some room gain down low. What amp do you have to push it with? The Havoc will take a lot of power in a small sealed box to get the most out of it.

**SQBubble** · **03-23-08, 12:06 PM**

Quote:

Ricci wrote:

Actually the xmax on the Havoc is listed at 30mm. If you can put it in a 6cuft box it will be fine. Just add a little eq, a lot of power, and some room gain down low. What amp do you have to push it with? The Havoc will take a lot of power in a small sealed box to get the most out of it.

the one I have is 25mm, the new ones are 30mm. I got a crown xti2000 to power it, the sub is dual 2ohm. I don't know if its enough power?

**SQBubble** · **03-25-08, 07:25 PM**

what if I use 2 18" PR with it?

**funky_waves** · **03-26-08, 07:06 PM**

I would definitly use that driver with a pair of 18" passives, it models quite nice in 5.5-6 cubes gives around a 17hz tune with almost 6db@20hz more output over sealed.

**SQBubble** · **04-20-08, 11:50 AM**

alrite! for a final decision... is 2 PR enough ? they wont bottom out ?

**Geoff St. Germain** · **04-20-08, 02:12 PM**

The only 18" PRs that are available should be adequate, but it depends on how low you are tuning and the size of your box. Two of the CSS/AE 18" PRs will provide more than twice the displacement capability of the Havoc which should be good.

**SQBubble** · **05-05-08, 03:28 AM**

I got all the enclosure dimensions and tuning ready to be built(~7.8NET @~17.65hz), but I got a tricky question I gotta get that answered before I proceed!!

ok so the sub will be firing on the floor, and the 2 PR's are going to be firing same side one on top of the other one, kind of an L, where the | are where the PRs are and _ is where the sub will be, logically, the PR in the middle of the sub and the other PR will be getting most of the pressure produced by the 18" sub... Will this be an issue?

Any thoughts?

**Ricci** · **05-05-08, 10:34 AM**

You should definitely have your PR's on opposite sides of the enclosure to cancel out vibrations. If you don't the enclosure may rock violently at high volume. Can you do that? Also don't down or upfire the PR's. The Havoc should be fine for downfiring.

**SQBubble** · **05-05-08, 09:39 PM**

wow, thats really good to know!!! good thing i dindt start with the build... so PR's always has to be side by side when the sub is downfiring ?
I wanna have at least 1 PR firing front for the look... but Idk where to put the other one... or I could always put one left side, one right side and one in front all at the same height and sub firing ground, will this be good?

**Ricci** · **05-06-08, 12:17 PM**

Just use 2 PR's and put them on opposite sides from each other. You can put the driver downfiring, front firing, even up firing. The reason that you don't want the PR's on the same face is because they have a lot of moving mass. Sometimes over a kilo. Just imagine a 2.2lb weight moving 2" peak to peak 20 times a second...now add another one on the same enclosure face. That's a whole lotta shakin going on! If you put them opposite each other they cancel each other out.

**SQBubble** · **05-06-08, 12:59 PM**

alrite that is what ill do, thx.

I just got the PR's !! here are some pics

.

more pics here:
http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m...dio%20Project/

**Ricci** · **05-06-08, 03:44 PM**

yeah man! That's a nice pic right there. You're still gonna use those OEM 10's aren't you? I bet those sound really good for 2-channel music listening.That big 18 with the PR's should shake the house a lot more for HT though.

**Bent** · **05-07-08, 12:38 PM**

PR's always have to move horizontally to alleviate sag due to the moving mass. (another way of phrasing what was above.)

Optimally, the drivers should also move horizontally - but some have suspensions that can deal with sag better than others. If it's posible, you would be insuring the best use of the driver if it isn't downfiring though.

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