My first DIY

**Mr. Lamb Fries** · **09-29-06, 03:02 PM**

I would greatly appreciate advice for my first DIY sub...This might be a two part thread as I would first I would like to decide and get the equipment...Then build the box! Not sure if this is the right approach, but this is where I am at. Let me know if I shoud consider the box design first.I have narrowed it down to two options concerning the sub and amp:

1.Sound Splinter RL-P 15, with a Behringer A500-$270+180=$450
2.DAYTON TIT320C-4 -Titanic MKIII & a 300 watt Bash amp-$310 at Parts Express

Here are some notes that may play a factor in your suggestions-
1. I would like to keep the project under $500 (puts a strain on the budget for the SS, but if it is THAT much better, I could swing it...but prefer the lower costing PE set up)
2. Used for 90% movies
3. The room is approx. 15X18 with 8 ft high ceilings
4. Would like to have the Sub Not TOO big (WAF) not bigger than approx. 10 ft3 or 290 l
5. Rest of the equipment: HK 7200 with a 7.1 set up with JBL Studio series with 312's as the front towers.
6. Would like it to play low & I would like a sub that is "versatile" in different rooms because I am moving soon and would like it to be a good fit in a typical room (if possible) P.S. I dont mind overkill!!!

I am also considering getting the 15" kit from PE for $270 (link below) and calling it a day. I would prefer to build one myself but think this would be good enough for the time being...TALK ME OUT OF THIS OPTION!

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=300-770

Let me know if I am way off base, as neither of these combinations are set in stone, and I dont want to pull the trigger on a bad combo because I am getting frusterated in my search. All the options are sucking the fun out of this

...so I thought I would ask the experts! PLEASE HELP!!!

Any thoughts or sugestions would be greatly appreciated...Thank you for any advice

**JCD** · **09-29-06, 08:33 PM**

Quote:

I am also considering getting the 15" kit from PE for $270 (link below) and calling it a day. I would prefer to build one myself but think this would be good enough for the time being...TALK ME OUT OF THIS OPTION!

I've been trying to remember if this was the one, but there is a sub kit at PE that someone said the parts were fine, but the enclosure they give was too small.. I can't remember if your one above is the correct one or not.

Another DIY Sub is this one.. haven't heard it, but some people did build it and liked it.

That being said, the SoundSplinter is good.. and use this for your amp..

JCD

**Exocer** · **09-29-06, 08:55 PM**

First DIY projects are always exciting

The dayton kit isn't horrible for $270, but you are also peicing together two other options that are way better. So lets go in that direction

290 liters is a good enough size to go ported. Based on your budget, going ported is the easiest way to get the most output. 290 liters tuned to 15-16hz looks good and is a proven design done before.

$270 can buy you a Behringer Ep1500, more power for your buck.

Edit: you can probably snag an Ep1500 for $175 plus shipping from ebay. It'll probably come up to $200.
Looks like those Ep1500's are gone...

**Sonnie** · **09-30-06, 12:29 PM**

I don't think you'll go wrong with the SoundSplinter driver. I think you can get the EP2500 for $300 now... then you know you'll have power to spare.

**Exocer** · **09-30-06, 04:47 PM**

Yeah, Rl-p 15 would be the way to go. You might go a little over budget but you wont be left wondering "what if"

**Mr. Lamb Fries** · **09-30-06, 07:45 PM**

Quote:

JCD wrote:

I've been trying to remember if this was the one, but there is a sub kit at PE that someone said the parts were fine, but the enclosure they give was too small.. I can't remember if your one above is the correct one or not.

Another DIY Sub is this one.. haven't heard it, but some people did build it and liked it.

That being said, the SoundSplinter is good.. and use this for your amp..

JCD

Thanks for the links...I spent quite some time reading the first one! I am really lookin at the titanic box. I could always add a second one down the road if this isnt enough. This would stay under my budget and follow a proven design. I wouldnt want to spend a bunch of money on parts/supplies and end up wih a lame sub. This is my first attempt and would prefer to follow some others lead.

Is having constantly variable phase control, really that important? the designer thinks so (I am sure for a good reason), but I would like to get a little more than 250 watts for the sub. This thread was created a while ago so there may be some more powerful sub amps (3-400 watts) with the constantly variable phase control built in. Does anyone know where I could find one?

BTW I love the 1000 watt component amp you have in the link. Would love to go that way but the finances dont allow.

**JCD** · **10-02-06, 12:08 PM**

I think the design is still solid. That particular driver is still really good (the designer uses two 15" versions in his IB) and the amp is supposed to fall in the "just right" category.

As I recall, there were several questions about increasing the amp's wattage which were all dismissed by the designer/author unless it had variable phase control.

And I'll have to leave the phase question to some of the other folks around here.. but yeah, you want it.

JCD

**Mr. Lamb Fries** · **10-02-06, 01:01 PM**

I saw he really was saying use that amp b/cuz it matched well and it had constant variable phase control. He also said that more power could be used to increase SPL. but is there an amp available now that had the constant variable phase control option. I was hoping there was an amp that hit the market since then with that feature but had a little more power. This thread was started a while ago. I saw the specs on the Rythmik audio 380 watt plate amp. Does anyone have experience with this one?

To be honest, I am not sure what the constant variable phase control does. I know what it is, but not sure why having it is a necessity. I'll take his word on it, but I would like to understand why, and if it was available...have some more power!!!

I was looking for the Behringer 1500 at a decent price. I may wait till that comes up again. is there an outboard component I could get that would accompany that amp, and have all the controles/features of the 250 watt plate amp that he suggests?

**Exocer** · **10-02-06, 03:18 PM**

I own both the Rythmik amp you mention and the Ep1500. Have any questions?

**JCD** · **10-02-06, 03:31 PM**

I don't know of any other plate amps that have >250amps and the variable phase control. It's either 0 or 180 if there is any phase compensation at all.

As for the outboard component to adjust the phase, I think the Paradigm X-30 was capable of that. I'm not sure they make them anymore, but you can probably find one used.

In the end, I think you're spending more $$ on getting a few more db's than it's worth. Just my opinion of course, but I think the 250watt amp will be fine unless you're in a huge room playing at lound levels.

JCD

**Exocer** · **10-02-06, 03:42 PM**

The Rythmik amp will be fine with its variable phase control and added features. Either way, i've never found a reason to use continuously variable phase control in my system, its nothing to lose sleep over... especially if your receiver has speaker distance adjustability.

I use an Ep1500 which has only an option of 180 degree phase or 0 degree phase settings. Not a single problem integrating that setup into my system.

**Mr. Lamb Fries** · **10-02-06, 04:14 PM**

First let me thank everyone for their replies. I am totaly new to this and a little gun shy about making a decision. Sometimes I hate the "second guess" complex that this hobby comes with.

Quote:

Exocer wrote:

I own both the Rythmik amp you mention and the Ep1500. Have any questions?

a couple of questions...assuming they are the same price, which would you prefer? I have a dedicated LFE out on my receiver (as well as speaker distance control), so is there anything else I would need if I go with a pro amp, besides cables? It seems you can get more watts/dollar if you go with a pro amp, but lose some of the features. How would the Rythmik Audio amp match up with the titanic 12"? Is there anything I would miss??? What abour auto turn on/off...is that a pain?

I think I've decided on the 12" titanic, and the box design shown in the link that JDC so kindly put in his reply, but want the best bang for buck as far as watts. I may be biased because my old sub had 250 watts and was not near enough for me. I know drivers and designs are different, but Ive got that figure stuck in my head as being to weak! I understand what the designer says about watts...but 380 @ 4ohns (Rythmik), sounds so much better than 250 @ 4 ohms (PE)

I guess my biggest question for all would be...If you had to start over, building your first DIY sub, and had a budget of $400, what sub/amp combo would you go with? Am I on the right track???

**Mr. Lamb Fries** · **10-02-06, 04:26 PM**

How would this subwoofer compair to the Rocket UFW-12 Subwoofer?

http://www.av123.com/products_produc...rs&product=8.1

**JCD** · **10-02-06, 05:52 PM**

Quote:

Mr. Lamb Fries wrote:

I know drivers and designs are different, but Ive got that figure stuck in my head as being to weak! I understand what the designer says about watts...but 380 @ 4ohns (Rythmik), sounds so much better than 250 @ 4 ohms (PE)

I guess my biggest question for all would be...If you had to start over, building your first DIY sub, and had a budget of $400, what sub/amp combo would you go with? Am I on the right track???

By increasing the wattage from 250 to 380, your total db increase will be.. 1.82dbs higher. I don't think that's hardly noticeable. It's one of those things that doesn't look right, but if I did my math right, that's all you get.

I think Pro-Amps can be a great bargain, but they're not designed for a HT -- e.g., their fans are relatively loud. That's why they get used a lot in IB's, but not as much in regular HT's. Of course, there are "things" you can do to decrease the fan noise, but it's something else that you have to worry about.

So, for me, given the miniscule sound increase, the fan issue, the variable phase for whatever it's worth, the cost (PE is still cheaper I think), convenience, I'd stick with the the original PE amp.

JCD

**Exocer** · **10-02-06, 06:06 PM**

Quote:

Mr. Lamb Fries wrote:

assuming they are the same price, which would you prefer?

How would the Rythmik Audio amp match up with the titanic 12"?

Is there anything I would miss???

What abour auto turn on/off...is that a pain?

I guess my biggest question for all would be...If you had to start over, building your first DIY sub, and had a budget of $400, what sub/amp combo would you go with?

Am I on the right track???

If they were the same price definitely the Ep1500...I could power two subs with 450 watts @ 4ohms and making the fan quiter took no more than 5 minutes. This only pertains to sealed subwoofers though. Some form of discrete highpass filter protection if/when going ported with such a high tuning frequency is important.

The Rythmik would match up well with the Titanic, assuming the allignment wont push the driver into over excursion before the amps' rated max power (I haven't checked out the design in JCD's post yet). Also, Brian at Rythmik audio is excellent about customizing high pass filters. A highpass filter will be very important with the 12" drivers mentioned here to protect the drivers from frequencies under the tuning point. Did I mention how important highpass filters are?

You would miss a few options on the Rythmik amp that have the ability to effectively help a sealed subwoofer extend into lower frequencies. Also, auto-on/off which isn't a pain for me since all of my gear is so close together. You also miss out on highpass filters, which is of importance if you plan to go vented with the Titanic 12" driver.

With a budget of $400 I'd probably go dual 12" Ascendant audio assasins subwoofers wired in series, the Rythmik basic 350watt amp (supplying 284watts @ 8ohms) in a 200 liter box tuned to 20-22hz. I like being different.

Yes you're definitely on the right track.

**JCD** · **10-02-06, 06:08 PM**

Quote:

Mr. Lamb Fries wrote:

How would this subwoofer compair to the Rocket UFW-12 Subwoofer?

http://www.av123.com/products_produc...rs&product=8.1

Hard to say, but the designer's take on it was that it would beat any other retail sub for =<$700 -- including SVS and Hsu. I've never heard a mention of the Rocket before, but for $1100, it falls outside of the "better than.." category. Doesn't mean it's better or worse, just no "designer guarantees"

.

JCD

**Mr. Lamb Fries** · **10-03-06, 08:42 AM**

The reason I threw the rocket in the mix, is I just won a coupon for AV123, and could get a Rocket UFW-12, for $599

This DIY sub would cost approx $500 when all is said and done. So an extra $150 delivered, is doable if it is that much of upgrade. I have read some reviews on the rocket and says it is lacking in the HT area (the main reason for me to have a sub). anyone familiar with that sub and its performance?

I still would like to build my own, but most important to me is the end result

**khellandros66** · **10-03-06, 12:13 PM**

Here's an idea, buy the Rocket UFW-12 and be happy, if you have the DIY itch start ona smaller project like a secondary sub for behind the couch or something...

The Rocket is a very nice sub and I have read alot of great things about it.

~Bob

**Exocer** · **10-03-06, 01:11 PM**

For $599 you can DIY something that will easily lend itself better to HT listening than the UFW-12.

SS rl-p 15 and an Oaudio 500watt amp will work do the trick. I like the idea of user friendly adjustable highpass settings. http://www.oaudio.com/

You can spend the rest on building a box.

**JCD** · **10-03-06, 05:29 PM**

Hmm.. that does put a new spin on it.

Well, if you want something proven, I'd probably go with the Rocket. DIY has it's own satisfactions, but guarantees isn't one of them.

I did a quick search for some reviews and found this one that reviewed ir rather favorably. It did say that it was good to about 25hz, but might struggle at louder volumes for the low bass..

Quote:

On HT applications in a mid-size room, the UFW-12 exhibits respectable mid-upper bass dynamics and good extension to about 25 Hz. At higher playback volumes, the UFW-12 limiter will occasionally compress deep bass passages, so hard-core HT enthusiasts might consider dual UFW-12 for an additional 6 dB of headroom.

With that deep of a discount, and you want something "proven", I'd go with the Rocket. If you want to build something because you'll enjoy the process and want the satisfaction of "I built that", then I'd go with the design I linked you to.

JCD

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