21" IA IB Subwoofer

**IncriminatorAudio** · **06-16-09, 07:17 PM**

Hello everyone... glad to be here at the Shack!

We have been experimenting with a few projects and recently developed what we believe will be an excellent 21" IB driver.

We realize this is a limited market, but it is all in good fun and we would appreciate your feedback.

Here are the parameters:

Fs: 24 Hz
Re 3 Ohm Series
Qms: 8.01
Qes: 0.73
Qts: 0.67
Mms: 419 g
Cms 0.10 mm/N
Vas: 372 L
Sd: 1620 cm^2
BL: 15.4
Xmax: 33mm
Xmech: 42mm
SPL: 90.5 1w/1m
1500 RMS

Thanks,
Nick

**Sonnie** · **06-17-09, 10:26 AM**

Hi Nick...

I am not that up on parameters, but probably one of the most important questions is what kind of pricing will you have on it... can you at least give us a ballpark estimate?

**brandonnash** · **06-17-09, 11:06 AM**

The specs look good to me. The limited knowledge I have in the t/s field they look good anyway. I like the sound of a 21 ib driver.
Posted via Mobile Device

**dgilme** · **06-17-09, 12:05 PM**

I may be missing something but wouldn't a lower fs, say around 19 -20 hz be more fitting for an IB setup?

**Ricci** · **06-17-09, 12:55 PM**

Welcome to HTS Nick.

I have a few questions...
What is the estimated pricing? Are these production parameters, or is it still in the prototype/design phase? What is the effects of inductance going to be like on this driver? Most IB drivers are usually quite good in this regard due to lighter vc's and smaller motors.

The suspension seems quite stiff on this guy (high FS, low CMS) for an IB driver. Looks like it'll take a lot of power to approach xmax in free-air. Around 850w and probably a bit more in reality due to compression and losses. This is good from a reliability and safety standpoint, but causes it to roll off a bit of the lows. Not many people put 1000w into each IB driver.

**lsiberian** · **06-17-09, 04:11 PM**

Most music is above the 25hz range. The extension nuts sacrifice volume in the name of extension

**dgilme** · **06-17-09, 04:17 PM**

Quote:

lsiberian wrote:

Most music is above the 25hz range. The extension nuts sacrifice volume in the name of extension

Or they watch movies and want to get the sub sonic effects that are in them.

**IncriminatorAudio** · **06-17-09, 07:16 PM**

Quote:

Ricci wrote:

Welcome to HTS Nick.

I have a few questions...
What is the estimated pricing? Are these production parameters, or is it still in the prototype/design phase? What is the effects of inductance going to be like on this driver? Most IB drivers are usually quite good in this regard due to lighter vc's and smaller motors.

The suspension seems quite stiff on this guy (high FS, low CMS) for an IB driver. Looks like it'll take a lot of power to approach xmax in free-air. Around 850w and probably a bit more in reality due to compression and losses. This is good from a reliability and safety standpoint, but causes it to roll off a bit of the lows. Not many people put 1000w into each IB driver.

I think we are going to put this unit in the $450 shipped range. These are close to production T/S's - this driver is setup to take 1000 RMS to get to full Xmax of 30mm - I don't think alot of people plan to have 4 21 IB's in there living room. We build all these drivers by hand - so we have alittle play in the final T/S. Keep in mind VD is 10560 cm^2.

Nick

**onebadmonte** · **06-17-09, 10:46 PM**

The wife is totally opposed to me putting subs in the ceiling. Does any one have a clue if these would work in an open baffle application? Thanks.

**fackamato** · **06-18-09, 08:21 AM**

Quote:

onebadmonte wrote:

The wife is totally opposed to me putting subs in the ceiling. Does any one have a clue if these would work in an open baffle application? Thanks.

I don't see why not! Huge speakers though!

**onebadmonte** · **06-18-09, 08:35 AM**

Quote:

fackamato wrote:

I don't see why not! Huge speakers though!

Fackamato, you're a swell guy. You reply with kind words. Thanks.

As for staying on topic, I would like to quote the always classy Sir Mix-a-Lot... "I like'em round, and big." :P Got any pics IA?

**Ricci** · **06-18-09, 10:39 AM**

Quote:

IncriminatorAudio wrote:

I think we are going to put this unit in the $450 shipped range. These are close to production T/S's - this driver is setup to take 1000 RMS to get to full Xmax of 30mm - I don't think alot of people plan to have 4 21 IB's in there living room. We build all these drivers by hand - so we have alittle play in the final T/S. Keep in mind VD is 10560 cm^2.

Nick

Thanks for the reply. Any other notes you'd like to share? VC size, layers, configuration? If I was going to use these it would be 4...You may be surprised at what people do. I'd expect people to use no less than 2 of these (equivalent to 4-15's).

**looneybomber** · **06-23-09, 05:51 PM**

Quote:

onebadmonte wrote:

The wife is totally opposed to me putting subs in the ceiling. Does any one have a clue if these would work in an open baffle application? Thanks.

One of the largest determining factors when it comes to OB speakers is mechanical noise. If a speaker is noisey, it's useless for OB use.

**IncriminatorAudio** · **06-24-09, 04:48 PM**

Quote:

Ricci wrote:

Thanks for the reply. Any other notes you'd like to share? VC size, layers, configuration? If I was going to use these it would be 4...You may be surprised at what people do. I'd expect people to use no less than 2 of these (equivalent to 4-15's).

Sorry for the delay - I've been over ran as always!

Right now - it has a 4 layer coil in it and is a Dual 2 - but we can change to give whatever impendence you need.

The price right now on the IB is $450 as the parts to build bigger drivers is very high - if it's IB or HT drivers. The good thing is we can do the HT version for around the same price point. Working on all of this now. Expect more soon!

Thanks,
Nick

**Ricci** · **06-25-09, 10:54 AM**

Sounds good. A D2 version and maybe a D4 version (or D1) would probably cover just about everybody.

Waiting for details on the HT version...

**Rightbrained** · **06-25-09, 09:45 PM**

+1 on interest in the HT version.

**Vaughan100** · **06-30-09, 10:18 AM**

Massive driver, massive displacement and not that expensive. I mean the Maelstrom X is, what, like $395 for an 18"'er. Is there anything I'm missing here ?

Going by pure displacement numbers, this thing should blow it out of the water for not much more.

Regards,

**Mike P.** · **06-30-09, 11:15 AM**

Not quite. The specs listed for the Incriminator sub are for an IB application, not for sealed or ported.

**looneybomber** · **07-01-09, 05:03 PM**

Quote:

Mike P. wrote:

Not quite. The specs listed for the Incriminator sub are for an IB application, not for sealed or ported.

But they did say they could make an HT friendly version. I'm assuming they must have easy access to a build house or are a buildhouse themselfs, otherwise being able to change soft parts and voice coils would require quite a bit of time if they're made in China.

**dgilme** · **07-01-09, 05:21 PM**

There is a 21" mael-x coming as well with something like 45mm of xmax.

**Mike P.** · **07-01-09, 06:48 PM**

Quote:

But they did say they could make an HT friendly version.

Yes, but that's an entirely different beast compared to the IB parameters that have been posted.

Quote:

There is a 21" mael-x coming as well with something like 45mm of xmax.

The 21" Maelstrom-X will have 32 mm Xmax and be in the $600 range.

**IncriminatorAudio** · **07-27-09, 03:55 PM**

I think we are going to give 1 or 2 of these away for prizes.....

I think I will let Sonnie....decide the best possible way to do it!

**Rightbrained** · **07-27-09, 04:35 PM**

sign me up Sonnie !

**Ricci** · **07-28-09, 02:09 PM**

Do you have these for sale yet? If you do I think some nice Hi res pics would go a long way....

**bassman_soundking** · **08-10-09, 08:25 PM**

I want to win a 21" IA h/t sub!!!!

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