Audiopulse/TC and JL Audio

**f155mph** · **10-29-09, 02:02 PM**

I been searching the forum and it seem like JL's W7 drivers are not very popular. Why is this the case? It is because it hype?

I am trying to figure out which driver to use a 12w7 or Axis 12". Both seems to be in the same price range. It mainly will be for music in a small enclosure. I am not sure if it will be sealed or ported yet. Can someone point me in the right direction or alternative for these subs?

Thanks!

**Ricci** · **10-29-09, 02:35 PM**

Mostly it's because of cost and the fact that they only go up to 13.5" in size. When you can get good quality 18" drivers for much less than a 13W7 it's a no brainer usually.

**sub_junkie** · **10-29-09, 02:37 PM**

Not to thread jack or anything, but what is the P2P excursion of the JL 13 w7? Is it around 3 inches also?

**lsiberian** · **10-29-09, 05:10 PM**

Quote:

f155mph wrote:

I been searching the forum and it seem like JL's W7 drivers are not very popular. Why is this the case? It is because it hype?

I am trying to figure out which driver to use a 12w7 or Axis 12". Both seems to be in the same price range. It mainly will be for music in a small enclosure. I am not sure if it will be sealed or ported yet. Can someone point me in the right direction or alternative for these subs?

Thanks!

I'd consider the Axis 12" as better than the 12w7. It will probably perform comparable to most 15" subs.

The AXIS drivers are surpassed only by the LMS drivers.

Still they do cost a lot and that is their greatest detractor.

**fabulousfrankie** · **10-30-09, 10:44 AM**

Quote:

sub_junkie wrote:

Not to thread jack or anything, but what is the P2P excursion of the JL 13 w7? Is it around 3 inches also?

It's around 2.5" according to JL's xmax spec.

I think they're not that popular because of their price. They're very good woofers though. I have an 8" W7 in my car cause I could only fit an 8" and it was the best small sub I could find.

**f155mph** · **10-30-09, 09:26 PM**

do they still make the lms?

**harleyhualer-sc02** · **10-30-09, 11:50 PM**

If you really think about it the 13.5 is really a 15" sub, since the surround goes to the outer edge of the mounting flange. Most 15" subs mounting flange is about .75 wide.

**lsiberian** · **11-02-09, 03:30 PM**

Not sure TC Sounds is in another transition period atm. They are going back to direct dealing I believe.

**Mike P.** · **11-02-09, 04:12 PM**

Quote:

lsiberian wrote:

Not sure TC Sounds is in another transition period atm. They are going back to direct dealing I believe.

I heard the same. It's just a matter of when.

**DrWho** · **11-03-09, 12:58 AM**

Quote:

harleyhualer-sc02 wrote:

If you really think about it the 13.5 is really a 15" sub, since the surround goes to the outer edge of the mounting flange. Most 15" subs mounting flange is about .75 wide.

However, you're not getting the same linear travel from the surround as you are from the diaphragm. It'll be more like half at best, and it doesn't help that such a huge surround is being used to accommodate the excursion requirements...there's more area doing less excursion.

Btw, I don't want to downplay the "over roll" concept as I think that's pretty clever, but in the end what really matters is the Sd: effective surface area of the driver. A typical 15" JBL (just to pick something with a normal accordion surround and large frame) has an Sd of 880 sq cm. The JL 13W7 has an Sd of 693 sq cm (20% less)....so not quite a 15" sub.

I'm not a big fan of large inductance drivers, so I don't think I would ever personally purchase the Axis or JL, but I would definitely be interested in the LMS. The AE AV-15X should be capable of 'about' the same SPL/bandwidth as what you're looking at...except it comes without the inductance and a lower price tag.

**lsiberian** · **11-03-09, 03:28 PM**

I've not heard the Axis driver(though I will at some point), but I know the JL Audio subs are very high in sound quality. I've not compared them to the AD AV-15x, but would certainly love too. I'm not a huge fan of super low chasing designs though. One designer/builder I know states the LMS driver as the best theater one on the planet for theater. He says the Axis is a step down from that and the JL Audios are a step down from that.

I think the 8w7 is the best value of the line though. It's makes a great bottom for a 3-way.

**spanish68** · **11-03-09, 05:43 PM**

DrWho is right regarding the Axis/TC driver, at least the TC 3000. I have both the TC 3000 15" sub and the AV 15X sub. The TC sub has a little more low bass, specially below 20hz. For mid-bass, say around 50hz-100hz, it's not even close, the AV sub is much more linear in the frequency response, it's more efficient and has much better SQ. The TC sub can take more power and has deeper extension, but it's not as efficient and drops off big time after 60hz or so. It plays clean but it's a high inductance driver for sure. The TC sub is heavier and looks better (tall surround) but to me, the AV sub is a better sub overall. Also, the AV15X works fine with 1,000 watts or so while the TC 3k sub needs 2,000 watts or more to run it to its full potential.

I also have a CSS SDX 15" sub with a burned coil which I'm trying to fix. Between the three of them, the AV15X has the best SQ. To me, the AV15X/H subs are the best 15" DIY subs in the market right now.

**lsiberian** · **11-03-09, 06:18 PM**

I'd be concerned with localization and port resonance issues at a 100hz crossover in a theater setup, but I prefer the big Sub to handle the sub 50hz and the LR channel to take it down to 50.

Just for clarification what enclosure did you have the TC sub in?

**sub_crazy** · **11-03-09, 06:27 PM**

Quote:

lsiberian wrote:

Not sure TC Sounds is in another transition period atm. They are going back to direct dealing I believe.

I did get a response from TC Sounds regarding the availability of the LMS 5400 and was told that it will now be available in only the 18" version and should ship in December.

www.tcsounds.com should be up and running in December as well with a new design and I believe order taking as they appear to be going back to direct dealing again.

I would really love some LMS 5400 18's but they are pricey mutha's.

**spanish68** · **11-03-09, 08:08 PM**

Isiberian, I had the TC 3k sub in a 4cf sealed birch-ply box and also try it in with the PR box. Also, a 100hz crossover of the sub might not work for a lot of people but for some it works fine. I'm using a 100hz crossover. I have the sub in a corner between the two front speakers and the fact that the AV sub works so well in the mid-bass region and integrates so well with the speakers make sub localization not an issue for me.

**harleyhualer-sc02** · **11-03-09, 09:20 PM**

Quote:

DrWho wrote:

However, you're not getting the same linear travel from the surround as you are from the diaphragm. It'll be more like half at best, and it doesn't help that such a huge surround is being used to accommodate the excursion requirements...there's more area doing less excursion.

Btw, I don't want to downplay the "over roll" concept as I think that's pretty clever, but in the end what really matters is the Sd: effective surface area of the driver. A typical 15" JBL (just to pick something with a normal accordion surround and large frame) has an Sd of 880 sq cm. The JL 13W7 has an Sd of 693 sq cm (20% less)....so not quite a 15" sub.

I'm not a big fan of large inductance drivers, so I don't think I would ever personally purchase the Axis or JL, but I would definitely be interested in the LMS. The AE AV-15X should be capable of 'about' the same SPL/bandwidth as what you're looking at...except it comes without the inductance and a lower price tag.

I'm sure that typical 15" JBL has no wear near the excusion of the JL 13w7. So if you place them in a displacement conparasion the JL would would win. As well as placing the 13w7 against an 15" RE XXX, the 13w7 would get its butt handed to it. My point is ,its not a typical 15" sub but it will hold its own against most 15" subs availible.

**sub_crazy** · **11-03-09, 10:16 PM**

Here is some info Robertcharles got from TC Sounds:

Hello,

Here's the latest information regarding the launch date of our new products.

All of our products will be available in eight weeks. (he got this reply in late September)

Here's the list of our products:

Epic 10D2" and 12D2"

Axis 12Q1" and 15Q1"

LMS-R 12" and 15" (This is the Revo with a 3" linear voice coil)

LMS Ultra 5400 18"

Pro Audio 18"

Aura Top Assembly 18"

VMP (Passive Radiators) 12", 15" and 18"

We made some major and some minor tweaks to everything.

All products have detachable top assemblies except for the Epics. You will be able to purchase top assemblies separately. Our new products will have silver baskets and black cones with TC Sounds logo. Also, we have new and improved packaging.

We are excepting pre-orders. We require a 50% deposit now and the remainder when the products ships. If you want to place a pre-order please contact julie@tcsounds.com. Our prices do not include shipping. If you need a shipping quote send your zip code along with your pre-order request and we can get you an estimated shipping cost.

Some of you know us as Audiopulse, TC Sounds used the name Audiopulse for a short time. We are switching back to our original name of TC Sounds.

Our website has not been updated yet, we apologize for the delay and any confusion this has caused.

We appreciate your support, thanks for choosing TC Sounds. Have a great day!

Looks like we are about a month away from TC Sounds return..........BASS Heads can now breath easy again.........phewwwww

Advertisement