creative sounds customer service A+ (so far)

**lvisneau** · **09-04-07, 05:12 PM**

As you may know I recently finished my sdx-15 sonosub project. Well while watching some lfe demos one of the voice coils quit working.

Well I was kinda freakin out (to say the least) that my new sub was dead, and I had someone coming over to buy my 3mk3. After checking the vc's and seeing that only 1 was working I e-mailed css and gave them a call. It was after 5 on friday and w/ the long weekend coming I decided to not sell the mk3 and to relax and wait for css to get back in on tues. as soon as they got my e-mail they replied w/

A replacement driver will go out to you today. Inside there is a prepaid
shipping label for you to return the faulty driver. This is the first
problem like this we've had so I appreciate your patience.

Best regards

Bob Reimer
Creative Sound Solutions

Wow! this is first rate in my book. Hats off to css for responding so quickly and positively!!!!!
I'll let you know how the replacement goes.............. Leon

**Exocer** · **09-05-07, 07:09 AM**

Very good news! Too bad you had to be the first one though

**lvisneau** · **09-05-07, 07:52 AM**

Quote:

Exocer wrote:

Very good news! Too bad you had to be the first one though

Yeah, thats what I was thinking on friday night while my friends were sitting there wanting to hear the "incredible sub" that I was talking about.

I was waiting for them to say hmm, diy is the way to go huh?

**Chris Brunhaver** · **09-05-07, 10:40 AM**

How loud / long were you playing the LFE demos when it gave out?

When you pull the woofer out of the enclosure, you should smell the pole vent and see if it smells like burned electronics. Also, try pushing up on the cone until you can see the coil (i.e. if it is copper colored or a little charred).

Based on the amount of power you had on tap (1950 watts) and your repeated playing of LFE demos, you might have smoked the driver or otherwise damaged the coil.

**lvisneau** · **09-05-07, 03:20 PM**

Quote:

Chris Brunhaver wrote:

How loud / long were you playing the LFE demos when it gave out?

When you pull the woofer out of the enclosure, you should smell the pole vent and see if it smells like burned electronics. Also, try pushing up on the cone until you can see the coil (i.e. if it is copper colored or a little charred).

Based on the amount of power you had on tap (1950 watts) and your repeated playing of LFE demos, you might have smoked the driver or otherwise damaged the coil.

Actually I was only playing the demo for the second time, third clip and it was under 100 db. no noises happened when it went out. it just sort of faded.

**lvisneau** · **09-05-07, 03:28 PM**

Quote:

Chris Brunhaver wrote:

When you pull the woofer out of the enclosure, you should smell the pole vent and see if it smells like burned electronics. Also, try pushing up on the cone until you can see the coil (i.e. if it is copper colored or a little charred).

Checked for smell,none and no discoloration of copper coils.

**lvisneau** · **09-05-07, 07:52 PM**

So I decide to check the good voice coil. I hooked it up w/ the amp at 2 ohms stereo and it sounds perfect. what up wit dat. Heres a question. If you have a dual vc does that double the power rating?
I mean can you give it max power through both vc's or do you half it?if it'sa 1000 watt speaker then can you hook up a 1000 watt amp to each vc?

**bobgpsr** · **09-05-07, 08:22 PM**

Quote:

lvisneau wrote:

So I decide to check the good voice coil. I hooked it up w/ the amp at 2 ohms stereo and it sounds perfect. what up wit dat. Heres a question. If you have a dual vc does that double the power rating?
I mean can you give it max power through both vc's or do you half it?if it'sa 1000 watt speaker then can you hook up a 1000 watt amp to each vc?

How about 500w and play it safe.

**SteveCallas** · **09-05-07, 09:21 PM**

Too much power definitely wasn't the issue here, as he described playing at low levels, under 100db.

**WillyD** · **09-05-07, 09:25 PM**

Quote:

SteveCallas wrote:

Too much power definitely wasn't the issue here, as he described playing at low levels, under 100db.

That and MOST, most subwoofer issues in the home issues related to a driver malfunctioning are not due to the VC being burnt out. They're pretty rare...

**Chris Brunhaver** · **09-05-07, 11:46 PM**

I'd definitely recommend not running the sub with just one coil driven. The Qes doubles (basically doubling Qts) messing up the alignment and you have <1/2 of the power handling. If you plug the port and run it at low volumes it might sound fine though.

I'll just have to respectfully disagree about the power issue. Yes, HT material has much more dynamic range and far less average power but a huge ported box and much more power than the driver is rated for is a recipe for trouble (thermally or mechanically) even with a beast like the SDX-15. Just my $.02.

I'm glad to hear that CSS is taking car of you and I don't want to diminish that in any way. A great product is nothing without great service and support.

**lvisneau** · **09-06-07, 06:51 AM**

Quote:

Chris Brunhaver wrote:

I'd definitely recommend not running the sub with just one coil driven. The Qes doubles (basically doubling Qts) messing up the alignment and you have <1/2 of the power handling. If you plug the port and run it at low volumes it might sound fine though.

I'll just have to respectfully disagree about the power issue. Yes, HT material has much more dynamic range and far less average power but a huge ported box and much more power than the driver is rated for is a recipe for trouble (thermally or mechanically) even with a beast like the SDX-15. Just my $.02.

I'm glad to hear that CSS is taking car of you and I don't want to diminish that in any way. A great product is nothing without great service and support.

So your saying you can't run a dvc w/ 1 coil unpowered? I thought that the good thing about them was the versatility in wiring options. I was gonna wire at 2ohm 975 peak when the new one came. thats w/ 1 coil open. Ok i'm officially confused.

**Chris Brunhaver** · **09-06-07, 10:51 AM**

Well, without getting too in-depth, I'm glad this topic came up and would strongly recommend against doing that. As I mentioned, running one coil open doubles the Qes (basically doubling Qts), messing up your alignment. Running one coil drive and shorting the second coil shorted (as a braking coil) will keep the Qts the same but drastically reduce output.

Just run both coils in series as you did before and either run your amp bridged (and be a bit more careful) or simply a single channel.

Adire had a white paper on DVC drivers you might check out:
http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/Dual...oilDrivers.pdf

Unless running IB, raising the driver Q running a coil open or shorted with a resistor is pretty useless, unless the driver has a very low Q in the first place (in which case you should have bought a different driver probably).

**SteveCallas** · **09-06-07, 08:40 PM**

I know the SDX15 and the TC2000 15 SVC are different drivers, and XBL^2 motors typically use "smaller" voice coils, but if Ilkka could run ~2000 watts through the TC2000 15 SVC on a 30 second long linear sine sweep from 100-10hz at 110db from 2m groundplane, then the SDX15 shouldn't even blink indoors with actual material at less than 100db levels. Shouldn't even blink at 105db levels.

If they come back and tell lvisneau that he fried the voice coil due to using more than 1000 watts

then I think they are making a defective product and people should look to a different driver. I don't expect that to be the case though, just sounds like a run of the mill, random defect to me.

**lvisneau** · **09-06-07, 10:35 PM**

Quote:

SteveCallas wrote:

I know the SDX15 and the TC2000 15 SVC are different drivers, and XBL^2 motors typically use "smaller" voice coils, but if Ilkka could run ~2000 watts through the TC2000 15 SVC on a 30 second long linear sine sweep from 100-10hz at 110db from 2m groundplane, than the SDX15 shouldn't even blink indoors with actual material at less than 100db levels. Shouldn't even blink with 105db levels.

If they come back and tell lvisneau that he fried the voice coil due to using more than 1000 watts

then I think they are making a defective product and people should look to a different driver. I don't expect that to be the case though, just sounds like a run of the mill, random defect to me.

Time willtell steve, you can bet that, no matter what they come back with I will be letting everyone know, Good or bad!

**Chris Brunhaver** · **09-07-07, 01:47 AM**

It sounds like CSS is taking care of this and so there is no concern there.

This conversation is all conjecture anyway.

Still, as I recall, Ilkka broke at least one of those TC woofer in testing at that volume and so it wasn't exactly a success. Besides, I would think that the high power "ear ringing" stuff would have done the damage and it may have manifested itself later. Oh well, we may never know...

**lvisneau** · **09-07-07, 06:17 AM**

Quote:

Chris Brunhaver wrote:

It sounds like CSS is taking care of this and so there is no concern there.

This conversation is all conjecture anyway.

Still, as I recall, Ilkka broke at least one of those TC woofer in testing at that volume and so it wasn't exactly a success. Besides, I would think that the high power "ear ringing" stuff would have done the damage and it may have manifested itself later. Oh well, we may never know...

Hey chris, Do you work for css?

all of your 4 posts in this thread only. If you do, did you send the driver yet?

**WillyD** · **09-07-07, 07:36 AM**

Quote:

Chris Brunhaver wrote:

Still, as I recall, Ilkka broke at least one of those TC woofer in testing at that volume and so it wasn't exactly a success. Besides, I would think that the high power "ear ringing" stuff would have done the damage and it may have manifested itself later. Oh well, we may never know...

Yeah, it had a mechanical failure due to a defect. It wasn't Ilkka's fault, the amps fault, or even due to the volume at which the driver was tested. It was a defect which TC took care of.

I can't remember ever seeing an example of a thermal failure of a subwoofer driver on any forum. I've seen plenty of mechanical failures either due to defect or bottoming out...

I agree with Steve. It just sounds like a random defect to me.

**Chris Brunhaver** · **09-07-07, 11:43 AM**

Hi guys,

I have nothing to hide here and don't really appreciate the tone of the comments. I've been a lurker on this forum for quite a long time and also on AVS, PE, Madisound, Diyaudio, proaudioweb, and a bunch of car audio forums.

I grew up in the hobby end of things used to work in sales at Adire Audio and so am familiar with stuff, especially XBL^2 designs. I am acquaintance of Bob's from working at Adire but now work at a different speaker manufacturer (not really in the DIY end of things) doing product development and QA.

I guess I'll drift on back to lurking but I will say that while guys like Ilkka are doing a great job and a real service to the DIY community, some of the attitude and tone of the "experts" here will drive off the even more informed people here that can make a real contribution.

**JCD** · **09-07-07, 12:13 PM**

It does seem like a few posts are getting a little "personal".
Please play nice.

Thank you.

The Staff

**Chrisbee** · **09-09-07, 01:48 PM**

Hi Chris

Somebody should have warmly welcomed you to the Shack by now.

I hope to learn from your expertise.

**WillyD** · **09-09-07, 04:16 PM**

Quote:

I have nothing to hide here and don't really appreciate the tone of the comments.

Quote:

I guess I'll drift on back to lurking but I will say that while guys like Ilkka are doing a great job and a real service to the DIY community, some of the attitude and tone of the "experts" here will drive off the even more informed people here that can make a real contribution.

I hope you aren't speaking to me directly, because I certainly wasn't trying to be personal with my posts.

**Chris Brunhaver** · **09-09-07, 05:03 PM**

Hi Guys,

I'm sorry to get a bit defensive there, no offense taken. Thanks fo

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