Help me pick a fun/easy DIY sub project

[Citat3962]

First time poster... occasional lurker here.

I've assembled my first Home Theatre setup and I am absolutely loving every minute of it!

Polk R50 mains
Polk CSR Center
Polk R150 for Side and Rear surrounds

Yamaha RX-V661 Receiver
PS3
HTPC
Toshiba Regza HL42167 LCD TV

but wait!

Something's missing here!!!!

no sub for my .1!!!!!! ( BTW Great Smileys guys )

I looked into a few commercial subs and I find myself thinking I can do better for my money with a little elbow grease... I looked at the BIC H-100 and the Parts Express Dayton Sub-12.... To a Lesser extent I considered the AV123 X-sub due to a lower price and their location in my home state of colorado would save me some green on shipping....... But I fear it will lack the extension and output I want and leave me with a sub I'll want to upgrade.... also the lead time on the finish I want is a little longer than I want to wait.

So the question is: Can I build a better mouse trap for my money?

13'X14.5'X8' room with some open walls and a hallway down the back wall.

I want to spend about 250-300$ between the driver and the Amp.. Build materials I can pay for as I go.. I'm less concerned about those as the parts can be bought as needed.

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This build was suggested to me on the AVS forums:

4cf Slot ported 12" Enclosure

Pros:

Cost of parts are within budget with wiggle room to get a better amp than the Dayton 240.. possibly a Bash300 or an ApexSr.

I have access to all the tools I'd need to build it except for maybe a compressor and a paint sprayer.

From what the build thread says it should have good extension and decent output for a small-ish room. Way better than anything commercial I can buy for the cost of Driver, Amp enclosure and finish if I use paint.

It's dimensions have already been calculated and graphed with the driver I want to use so I can see on paper it looks good (to my laymans eyeball anyway)

Cons:

Big honkin cube compared to the commercial subs I was looking at.

I have NO Wood working experience. I can follow directions and I will have some expert help (Friend is a Carpenter/handyman) but this is not a project I can undertake on my own. This will also likely cause the build to take a while to complete as I'll need to work on parts of it in a friend's workshop and not at my house.

Linked with the woodworking thing... If I build this I'm going to need to finish it.. I've never done veneer but it strikes me as a difficult process to get right... especially with all the corners and curved edges..

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So with the cons on the above in mind I started researching a SonoTube build.

I would like the dimensions of the tube to be near to the size of the SVS 25-31 PCi 20"X33"

PROS:

SonoTube Design uses a little less floor space than the cube

I think I could figure out how to cut the plugs and the tube in one stop to my buddies workshop so I can bring home all plug pieces and assemble it at home at my leisure

Not a huge concern but I have access to a cheap SonoTube so materials should be cheaper

Easy to finish.. I can make the caps look nice with paint or use a nice piece of wood for the part sticking out and then just cover the tube with carpet or cloth or something.

CONS:

Not sure if this is a Con but an ICBM silo in the corner looks a little funny.

I can't figure a way to internally mount the Amp like the SVS subs do without ruining the tube. Cardboard is none to forgiving and cutting a square hole in a curved surface sounds like a recepie for disaster.

I can either use an external box for the Amp or possibly build a finished box for the Amp and try to attach it to the side of the tube over the carpet and run the wiring though a small hole in the side. I would like my sub to be all one piece for asthetic reasons.. I don't want this to look like a half done DIY project so anything to get the amp IN or ON the sonotube would be worth doing in my opinion as long as it doesn't hurt sound quality or look worse than an external.

This is my biggest concern with the sono option because I know with a lot of help and elbow grease I can make the ported box look good. If I can make the Sono look good on my own I'll go that route so I can make progress according to my own schedule

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Any thoughts, Critique or suggestions would be appreciated! Especially if someone would like to help me do exact calculations on the Sono Tube option so I'm sure to get the proper dimensions to take advantage of the Driver I want to use...

Also suggestions for other good budget DIY sub projects would be appreciated

[cynical2]

Welcome to the Shack, Drew! I am not a sub expert, but we have the most knowledgable and most helpful sub guys on the internet at the Shack! I'm sure you'll get all the help you need, and in short order.

Again, welcome! (And speaking of smilies, I'll throw in my favorite.)

[Mike P.]

Tubes are easy to build. You paint the endcaps and cover the tube with fabric. Here's a calculator that will help you with the design.

http://www.subwoofer-builder.com/sonosub.htm

Mounting a plate amp externally on the tube is simple. Scroll down to "plate amp mount".

http://dustin.bunnyhug.net/construction.php

You don't mention what sub you're using. What are you considering?

[Citat3962]

http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/vie....php?f=3&t=832

this is one of the subs I was looking at.

im open to other suggestions though

[Mike P.]

For the money that's a good sub. John will recommend what volume the sub should be to meet your requirements. He's a good guy to deal with.

[Citat3962]

Any thoughts on the best thing to use for the port?

I was thinking of using 5" PVC but I was hoping to find a flared port to add to the end of it.

[Geoff St. Germain]

I'd go with cardboard tube. I haven't looked at the length required, but 6" might be workable, but could be too long. It'll be easier to nail down once you decide on your sub. The AE might be ok with a 4" diameter port. I'd try to stay away from PVC pipe if possible because it's both heavy and expensive.

[Citat3962]

I wouldn't mind using Cardboard tube I'm just not sure where to find it in 6" Diameter...

Also I'm having trouble finding 16" Sonotube locally. Seems that Home Depot and Lowes only carries 8" 10" and 12" tube.... However I did look at The sono calculator and here's what I came up with. I can't figure out how to work WinISD yet but here's what I have.


12.2 12" Driver from AE
16" X 46" SonoTube or about 4cf
4" X 17" Precision Port
Tuned to 20Hz

Does that sound reasonable? I'd like to tune it lower.... I not sure if smaller than a 4" port is too small for a 12"..... I'd have to buy a huge length of 5" PVC sewer pipe to make a port so I'm tempted to get the off the shelf 4X17" option and build the enclosure around it.

Tempted, though it sounds silly now that I type it out...

EDIT:

Ok How about this.

12" driver
16"X48" Tube
4"X34" port
Tuned to 14.4Hz

Looking to spend about 200-300$ on Amp and Driver. Will the AE 12.2 do the trick in either of these enclosures?

Lastly once I nail down the exact driver I want I need help figuring out what to power these with. Most the ProAmps I've seen are in the 300$ range alone and I've decided I can live with an external box for a plate amp if I have to.... Suggestions on Driver and amp combos?

The Parts Express 240W is a value but I'd like more around 300W - 350W.. I plan to use the LFE output on my Receiver along with it's crossover so the plate amp will only be providing power..

[Eeyore]

I have asked John about those same drivers. He says that he thinks that he has ten in stock.

I am thinking about making some end table subs for my living room to get the ugly black box out of the room.

I asked him how they would do in a sealed 2'^3ft box and he claims that they would do well but says that they would do best with 500W. 500W into an 8ohm load is asking a lot. I'm afraid that spending all of that money on the amp defeats the purpose of using a budget driver.

You could probably get away with less power in a ported enclosure.

I really want to try building two of them and giving the PE 240W amps a try to see how they do but I don't want to regret the build later.

I'm sure that John knows what he is talking about concerning his drivers. He didn't steer me wrong with his AE IB15's so he has earned my trust in such matters.

[mayhem13]

Have you checked out any of the Parts Express kits with cabinets? Since your DIY skills are at a minimum, these would be a good bet, just require assembly and also sound better than commercial subs at the same price point. I hear good things about the RS1200 kit, that driver has excellent response with extremely low distortion and you still build it yourself!

[Citat3962]

I actually took the plunge on the 4CF cabinet.

I bought the wood and made all the cuts except the one for the amp.. not sure what I'll end up with.

10 Left!

I better call and order one of the C12.2's today then

So far it's looking like It'll be a pretty easy build. Just need to assemble the panels and even up some of the cuts that were a little too big because the Saw they had at Lowes was only accurate to 1/8" an inch... planning on belting the baffles and braces all together and evening them up with the belt sander.

anyway We'll see how it turns out. I plan on getting pics of the whole process.

Okay ordered a C12.2!!

Now to decide if I want a Dayton 240W, a Bash 300W or an Apex Sr with 350W..... The thread says it can handle between 250 and 350 Watts..

any reason why I shouldn't get a 350W Amp? Like maybe leaving a safety margin to prevent over powering the woofer? I'm not sure that's even possible or if thats something I'd have to worry about ABOVE 350W..

I'm planning on assembling the box this weekend so having the dimensions of the Amp would be helpful so I can make the cut in the back panel before I assemble it.

[SteveCallas]

No driver you buy in this price range will have enough displacement to warrant a tune below 20hz, so focus on >20hz.

A cylindrical port is better than a slot port in minimizing turbulent air flow, so unless you've already built in a slot port, you should seriously reconsider cardboard tube. A 12" driver typically warrants a 4" diameter port.

Not sure what the price difference is on those plate amps you are considering, but if it is marginal, go for the beefiest one.

Lastly, temper your expectations on performance with a $300 subwoofer - whether it be DIY or commercial.

[eyekode]

When you get this driver please let me know about the build. It looks nice, the only thing that held me back was the surround. It looks sorta small for the listed Xmax.

I was in a similar predicament and went with the Torrent Mistral DVC. I will post some high-res images when it gets here.

[Citat3962]

The Mistral DVC was another Woofer I considered. I decided on the C12.2 because it was more within my budget.

My expectations are about as tempered as they could be. I've never owned a Subwoofer except the old 6.5" one that came with my Sony HTIB. To give you an idea I was listening to my Polk r50 Towers with two 6.5" Drivers each the other day and thinking ... "wow those make some decent bass" So I'm sure any honest to goodness Subwoofer will knock my socks off!

I'm commited to the Slot port since it's already built into the box... It was a convinient free port and I'm not a HUGE Basshead.. I don't expect to run it at volumes that will cause port noise. However if I do find myself with that dilema I had enough fun building this one that I may just build a new box with a cylinder port and utilize all the things I learned building the first one! Then I'll pass this to my dad or one of my buddies..

Really if this doesn't tickle my fancy I may try out a sealed design next in an attempt to get a cleaner sound and a smaller box. I'm not particularly picky though as you can tell from my selection of budget mains

We'll see..

[BoomieMCT]

Citat3962 wrote:

The Mistral DVC was another Woofer I considered. I decided on the C12.2 because it was more within my budget.

My expectations are about as tempered as they could be. I've never owned a Subwoofer except the old 6.5" one that came with my Sony HTIB. To give you an idea I was listening to my Polk r50 Towers with two 6.5" Drivers each the other day and thinking ... "wow those make some decent bass" So I'm sure any honest to goodness Subwoofer will knock my socks off!

Well, you are in for a treat then. You are doing the proper research and whatever you build will flat out blow away your Sony HTIB sub.

I know you have a good idea what you want now, but I'd take a gander at this page just to see some other options.

[Citat3962]

Oh man that link is just Awful So many well planned out builds! The urge to build another is strong and I still haven't finished this one.

Now I feel like planning a 15" or 18" build with a round port more volume and a lower tuning.. I still would like to play with a Sonotube. Also after this project I feel a lot more confident with the tools I used and I feel like I could do something more complicated next time. Who knows maybe I'll invent an excuse to build an upgrade.

EDIT: I know I'll give them away as holiday gifts!! SUBWOOFER!!! the gift that keeps on giving!

[Citat3962]

I received the Woofer and it looks pretty nice. I'll wait to post pics of it until I get my hands on a decent camera. The one I have is really old and I don't have a tripod.

The C12.2 looks very solidly constructed. The magnet back and the Cage look VERY stout...

As for the surround I don't have anything on hand to compare it to. Looking at the premium brand subs people are using in the members gallery the C12.2 surround doesn't look as dramatic as they do.

I'm not overly concerned in my usually low volume application unless you had durability concerns.

[eyekode]

Citat3962 wrote:

I received the Woofer and it looks pretty nice. I'll wait to post pics of it until I get my hands on a decent camera. The one I have is really old and I don't have a tripod.

The C12.2 looks very solidly constructed. The magnet back and the Cage look VERY stout...

As for the surround I don't have anything on hand to compare it to. Looking at the premium brand subs people are using in the members gallery the C12.2 surround doesn't look as dramatic as they do.

I'm not overly concerned in my usually low volume application unless you had durability concerns.

Thanks for the info. I just saw that over at aespeakers someone responded with measurements from their build:
http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/vie...php?f=4&t=1611

I don't think you will be disappointed! ... now I am just hoping the Mistral I ordered lives up to those graphs.

[BoomieMCT]

The C12.2 has two voice coils, 4 ohms each. Are you intending to use only one VC or to have an 8 ohm load?

[Citat3962]

I ended up getting the Apex Sr. Amp which is 250W into 8Ohms so I plan to wire both coils in series.

The Apex Sr. is one heavy amp and it's a lot bigger than I expected!

I suspect this should be a very durable combo.

[eyekode]

Citat3962 wrote:

I received the Woofer and it looks pretty nice. I'll wait to post pics of it until I get my hands on a decent camera. The one I have is really old and I don't have a tripod.

The C12.2 looks very solidly constructed. The magnet back and the Cage look VERY stout...

As for the surround I don't have anything on hand to compare it to. Looking at the premium brand subs people are using in the members gallery the C12.2 surround doesn't look as dramatic as they do.

I'm not overly concerned in my usually low volume application unless you had durability concerns.

I received my Mistral last week too. Here are some high-res images:
http://photos.ganzhorn.org/album630

Let me preface this by saying this is the first real subwoofer driver I have purchased so I don't know what I am talking about .

My first impressions are that the magnet assembly is really impressive. I put it on my workbench and when I picked it up it had 2 wrenches and various other stuff attached to it .

The frame is stamped steel and honestly feels a little flimsy. The terminals are the cheap solder kind. The leads are woven into the spider and the spider itself looks spiffy. The overall finish quality is pretty poor. Some goobers on the surround etc. But it was very well packaged from Torrent audio. And after some initial tests I think it is probably a steal at ~110$ shipped.

I wired it up with one VC with < 100w and played some test tones through it. 15Hz looks hilarious and it is practically trying to jump off the bench. No audible sounds so it looks like the 2nd and 3rd harmonics are not too ugly.

Hopefully I will get to start my build soon. Good luck!

[Mike P.]

Go easy on the test tones. That's a constant voltage to the coil and you can burn it out. ( Experience talking here. )