Fusion NV-15 sub for HT? Win-ISD struggles

[cynical2]

I'm very new to the idea of DIY subs/speakers, but am interested in executing my 1st build in the near future.

I came across this sub for $100 new (compared to $350 in stores), so I thought it would be worth looking at in Win-ISD. But, the parameters don't seem consistent when I go to create the model. No matter what order I enter the parameters, something ends up way out of whack. I've done the methods recommended by Collo and others, but I can't get things to jive. And, I don't understand the fundamentals behind the model enough that I know which params are most important for a reasonably accurate model.

Basically, I'm trying to find out (1) how it models, and (2) based on the model results, does it look like it is a "deal" for a HT DIY build (or is this good for cars only). BTW, my options for a DIY build are wide open...not particularly limited by space, etc.

Thanks to anyone who can help!

Parameters from Fusion website:

[Mike P.]

Have you tried unchecking the "auto calculate unknowns" box before you enter any parameters into the WinISD "driver editor"?

[cynical2]

Mike P. wrote:

Have you tried unchecking the "auto calculate unknowns" box before you enter any parameters into the WinISD "driver editor"?

Thanks, Mike. No, I haven't tried unchecking the box. I can try that though. Won't that create "inconsistent formulas" or something like that, and block me from saving it out?

Anyway, I'll try it and see what happens.

[Mike P.]

Unchecking the box will force WinISD to accept the parameters you enter without causing a conflict. There will be no problem saving the file.

[cynical2]

Yep, that worked Mike. Thanks!

How should I think of the maximum port velocity? Do I need to worry about it going too high at any possible frequency, or do I only care about a certain frequency range?

[cynical2]

Also, how do I know if I should use 40mm or 20mm for Xmax?

Every place that I looked that was selling them, and on Fusion's website, it just said "Xmax: 40mm". But I downloaded the manual (a piece of which is in the first post), and it has "Xmax total: 40mm"...the word "total" being added makes me think of peak-to-peak instead of 1-way.

20mm each way seems more reasonable (based on other subs I've looked at, which seem to max out around 28mm), but if I get anywhere near the rated wattage of the driver, it would bottom out (at least using my newbie modeling skills).

I've attached the driver file I made, in case anyone is willing to play with this driver and see if they find any workable setup...

[ccdoggy]

Yes that looks to be peak to peak, you should use one way distance (90% sure).

I tried using that file in WinISD alpha and couldent get the numbers to work out to allow me to use it.

[Mike P.]

The file you posted works for me. The problem with this sub is the little amount of power it takes to reach maximum xmax. In 8 cubic feet tuned to 17 hz xmax is reaches with 115 watts. SPL at 20 hz would be 109db plus room gain which isn't too bad.

[cynical2]

Mike P. wrote:

The file you posted works for me. The problem with this sub is the little amount of power it takes to reach maximum xmax. In 8 cubic feet tuned to 17 hz xmax is reaches with 115 watts. SPL at 20 hz would be 109db plus room gain which isn't too bad.

Yeah, looks like you're seeing the same thing as me. Why in the they would rate a speaker at 1100W RMS that bottoms out at 115W doesn't make sense to me.

Anyway, thanks for your help. At least now I know that I can override the Win-ISD issues I was having.

And the driver search continues...

[eyekode]

Mike P. wrote:

The file you posted works for me. The problem with this sub is the little amount of power it takes to reach maximum xmax. In 8 cubic feet tuned to 17 hz xmax is reaches with 115 watts. SPL at 20 hz would be 109db plus room gain which isn't too bad.

I didn't run the numbers to verify, but 109db @ 20hz with 115 watts sounds amazingly good to me. Need more then 109db? Add a second sub. I would love to be able to run such low power with such high SPL. But honestly that sensitivity is insane, I wonder if these drivers live up to the parameters...

[Mike P.]

eyekode wrote:

I wonder if these drivers live up to the parameters...

That's the 100 dollar question. Do they perform as stated.

[cynical2]

Mike P. wrote:

That's the 100 dollar question. Do they perform as stated.

Hey, that's what y'all are supposed to tell me.

Oh, and no...I'm not into blowing out my eardrums (after all, I'm old). OK, truth be told, the problem isn't that I'm old. It's that my wife and kids would slap me.

Does anyone even know anything about the manufacturer's reputation?

[Mike P.]

I'm not to familiar with car audio. I've never heard of Fusion until you posted it.

[cynical2]

Does the Sd look right? It gives a Dd of < 10" for a 15" sub.

I changed the Sd value to 132in^2 and the Dd to 12.9", and the behavior starts to look much more "normal". Is it possible to have an Sd of 78in^2 for a 15"?

[mayhem13]

I guess the big question is can you trust the numbers? Thats a leap of faith IMO. Take a look at some of the drivers others are using on the forums where actual performance and design parameters are close. That driver claims monsterous efficiency in Unibox models.

[mayhem13]

Oh by the way, in 200L at 1100w-118db flat from 100hz down to 23hz tuned at 19hz dual 6" ports 56" long. Xmax used 25mm which was 40mm-15mm mechanical xmax given meaning xmax?-xmech not sure what they mean there? Anyhoose pretty impressive but $345.00. Reaches xmax25mm at 25-28hz at 1100w but doesn't overexcurse until below tune around 16.5hz.

[Geoff St. Germain]

Unless you can find someone that's used it I'd be a bit wary. I've never run across this driver before on any car audio forum.

[cynical2]

Yeah, that's kind of the same conclusion I'm coming to after looking around. You would think at the price they're trying to sell them that they'd be a nice driver...but I don't want to find out that it's not in my HT.