BFD 1124P Owners... the MIDI issue... - Page 6 - Home Theater Forum and Systems -

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post #51 of 57 Old 12-14-06, 02:20 AM
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Re: BFD 1124P Owners... the MIDI issue...

Sonnie wrote: View Post
If you can build an 1124p from scratch, why not look at building the BSE2496C for us? You could sell a few thousand easily.
Behringer rocks when it comes to value. Their line of processors are pretty much based on just a few basic core engines - change the software, end panels, and voila! A new product. Doing one from scratch for profit would sorta be like designing $500 toilet seats...

Sonnie wrote: View Post
You might wanna start a separate thread for this... so we don't get off topic here. Thanks!

Done! I tried to search for that but find nothing - so there's a new thread up off the top of the BFD forum.
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post #52 of 57 Old 12-14-06, 01:41 PM
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Re: BFD 1124P Owners... the MIDI issue...

t35tB0t wrote: View Post
The old Behringer design editor software will *not* work with WinXP.

I spoke with "JH" at Behringer supporting in Washington. He is aware of our few trouble-tickets and has relayed all the info to Behringer Engineering. They are stating that the DSP1124Ps work with the old DSP1100P design editor so they will not action this midi issue further unless we prove that their product is somehow in violation of midi protocol. They sorta do have a point.

However, they also likely have the low-level midi sniffing tools to capture the issue here. What's needed is a capture of a simple 3-byte command that works with their editor and fails with REW. Then we'd need to hammer *both* Behringer and the REW authors for resolution. Even then, there is a possibility that it won't ever get fixed.

"JH" suggested I consider the '2496 instead. great, that's just great.. but it probably would be cheaper then trying to get the REW authors to work this out directly with Behringer. Too bad because REW truly enhances these Behringer products and is an awesome tool - and so are these Behringer products. I could debug all of this for them. I could build an entire 1124P from scratch - but I've got enough things to do in my own life. These folks need to clean up their messes.
REW is NOT the problem here and it is impossible for me to fix within REW the bug in the DSP1124P. As you'll see in earlier posts, a midi diagnostic program (SendSX) has been used to send messages to DSP1124P's running firmware 1.3 which the DSP1124P's consistently misinterpret. I don't see how the design editor could work either, but since it doesn't even run midi comms under XP it's difficult to demonstrate that.
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post #53 of 57 Old 12-14-06, 02:59 PM
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Re: BFD 1124P Owners... the MIDI issue...

Perhaps we can identify a broken use case that Behringer would find more compelling?

* We have reports of the Behringer software "working", however that is pretty vague. Can we find a case where this software will run but fails to program the DSP1124P properly? The result might be a error shown on the computer or the DSP1124P, or it might appear to succeed but leaves the DSP1124P unit programmed incorrectly. Can we leverage the knowledge of 3-value commands not working to speed the identification of a case like this?

* Is there some other MIDI software that a significant number of buyers in the market already use or can't use because of the apparently broken MIDI support in the DSP1124P? I know very little about how the DSP1124P is used by it's true core market. Maybe someone who does know could help find a case where the MIDI problems are an impediment.

Does anyone know which versions of Windows the Behringer software *will* work on?

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post #54 of 57 Old 12-14-06, 04:27 PM
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Re: BFD 1124P Owners... the MIDI issue...

Hello to all,

I have another idea: Can someone with a midi loopback cable just loopback MidiOut and MidiIn of the BFD? Unfortunately, I just don't have one available, but I did the same within SW, and whenever I turned the jog shuttle in a configuration mode (e.g. frequency), the new value is shown for the fraction of a second and then the initial value is shown again. I guess, due to the jug shuttle movement, the BFD sends out the related 3-byte MIDI message which is looped back and misinterpreted as described above -> the value jumps back.
What I would expect with older v1.0 SW is that you can regularly configure any values in the loopback configuration (and as the MidiIn message should not trigger another MidiOut message we should not have an endless loop, either).

Maybe this convinces them that there might be a problem if no external software or MIDI hardware is involved.

Of course, I also wonder how (or if) the Behringer software could run with v1.3. Under XP it does not run here either, so I cannot check. Does someone still have older Windows versions available?

But even then, the BFD should not only be able to cope with commands sent by one particular program (which does not even run on XP, obviously). It must run with all standard compliant MIDI transfers, which should also apply to the loopback scenario described above.

post #55 of 57 Old 12-14-06, 11:28 PM
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Re: BFD 1124P Owners... the MIDI issue...

O.K. - Let's run the Behringer tool under Win2K. WinXP is lame anyhow (that's a different thread discussion). They claim it works so we'll verify. I hope to see for myself with a day or so. For now just assume Behringer has no reason to lie - having one tool that works and one that doesn't gets us part way there. We still might need to get some sort of low-level MIDI sniffer tool on the line to measure actual timing. That is almost all that can go wrong at that point. At least one of the devices is in violation of protocol, can't be sure which until you go have a look. It is that simple.

The big point is that Behringer is most unlikely to care to change the DSP1124P. Has anyone opened up a ver1.3 to see if there is a pluggable EPROM? If this thing is not easily re-programmable, no doubt Behringer will balk at a recall/exchange. Nay, the most likely avenue would be a hope there is a practical tweak to REW to work-around or fix *whichever* end is goofing this up. Yeah, it is that simple.

post #56 of 57 Old 12-18-06, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BFD 1124P Owners... the MIDI issue...

We now hopefully have a fix via revised firmware v1.4 provided to us by Behringer support... see this thread.

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post #57 of 57 Old 01-04-07, 12:40 PM
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Re: BFD 1124P Owners... the MIDI issue...

RobertS wrote: View Post
The funny thing is, if using the jogshuttle to configure settings manually, exactly the commands above are received from the BFD. But if you send the same sequence to the BFD, for some reason the message is misinterpreted.
This sounds like Behringer intends that one BFD should be able to control another,
and, with the described bug, it cannot.
Given that a version 1.3 BFD successfully controls an earlier one,
while the reverse fails,
Behringer is left with little wiggle room for denying a defect.
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