Bass Management System Development - Page 7 - Home Theater Forum and Systems -

Thread Tools
post #61 of 86 Old 03-03-07, 08:44 AM
New Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1
Re: Bass Management System Development

bvwj wrote: View Post

I appreciate fewer boxes. My concept for the D/A is a mouse sized box that could literally hang of the RCA or XLR connector to the sub amp, not another rack sized piece of equipment.

Can you expand on your concerns about firewire to the sub?
I assume that in this concept, you would need one of these mouse sized D/A at each sub? What would be the add on cost for each additional D/A?
Fader is offline  
Sponsored Links
post #62 of 86 Old 03-03-07, 11:44 AM
Posts: n/a
Re: Bass Management System Development

My target for a single channel, unbalanced, sub D/A is $40-50, so $50 for each additional sub. Blanced might be a little more. Full range might be a little more. Two channels might be a little more. If I could convice a sub manufacturer to integrate it, a digital-in sub could be less expensive than a similar analog-in sub.

Under 15' (4.5m) power is easy. Standard FireWire cables can carry plenty of power to power all the DACs. No external power supply is needed. In addition, the speakers can be chained from one to the next, so each speaker does not need its own cable run to the equipment rack. For $20 you could extend the run to 30' with a cable powered hub (repeater/splitter). Additional repeaters would be functional, but seem like a poor solution.

For longer distances (up to 100m) you would want FireWire over cat5 or coax. It's more expensive to send power over these cables, but it is possible. Currently I'm thinking it would be most economical to use a wall wart at the end of cat5 and coax runs. Then other DACs within 15' of the long run could again be cable powered.

There is nothing in the DSP archetecture that limits this system to low frequencies. The current concept is sub woofer based because that's where the largest audible gains can be made and because currently that's where the powered speakers are.

The market is beginning to understand digital interconnect. I like this digital snake from I/One. Of course it's FireWire. The entire system can cost less than some multi-channel analog snakes.

Historically audio manufacturers saw FireWire as an interconnect to get audio data into and out of PC's. New extensions to the FireWire standards make it ideal for distributing audio data as well.
post #63 of 86 Old 03-04-07, 10:59 AM
Posts: n/a
Re: Bass Management System Development

If you can satisfy the basic requirements of this group (current BFD features plus wanted improvements), and have this feature: "included filtering and SPL meter capabilities", I'd be interested and would cancel my plans to buy the Galaxy 150 and accessory software.
post #64 of 86 Old 03-04-07, 08:10 PM
Posts: n/a
Re: Bass Management System Development

Don't wait on me if you're ready to do something now. I'm only in the concept / prototype stage. I haven't made any commitments for features or dates.
post #65 of 86 Old 03-04-07, 09:32 PM
Senior Shackster
ACGREEN's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: WICHITA, KS
Posts: 133
Re: Bass Management System Development

Have you thought about audio/video distribution for new homes. This might be better suited for using the application you desire. I am building a new home and the most economical system I can find is Audio Authorities system which runs over Cat5. Maybe your technology would be better suited?
ACGREEN is offline  
post #66 of 86 Old 03-05-07, 12:05 AM
Posts: n/a
Re: Bass Management System Development

Barry, thanks for your forthright post. I'm in no hurry and there's a Tuesday deadline for the Galaxy buy, so given that I've got an old RS meter and a recently purchased Behringer ECM8000 microphone and a friend with lots of gear and software and my newTrueRTA and the software on this forum that I plan to learn and use, the ultimate hardware solution, whether your company's or another's can wait.

Also consider ACGREEN's comments. My good friend is having a house built and I am very concerned at what he's paying for wiring his new home for phone, TV, computer, audio, etc. Not that the subcontractor is ripping him off, because I know the number of wires, CAT5, COAX, etc and the associated labor hours involved. Is the alternative a daisy chain single (or almost single) run of firewire??
post #67 of 86 Old 03-05-07, 03:01 PM
Senior Shackster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Elkhorn, NE
Posts: 114
Re: Bass Management System Development

brucek wrote: View Post
The only function of a digital output on a receiver or processor is for digital dubbing using a CD or MD recorder. It's analogous to an analog tape loop, only in digital.

Conventionally, the receiver or processor do all the bass management and processing of the various digital formats (that require licensing) and then output analog to an external amplifier or speakers.
Ayreonaut wrote:
Ah. I guess you would have to have a full-fledged surround processor in the "unit" to construct the sub signal. Too much.
I plan to us a simultaneous analog and digital output with my X-Fi Elite soundcard. It will decode the surround modes and send it out via analog. It will also combine the decoded signal into a stereo pcm digital s/pdif signal. I connect the analog outs directly to my 7 channel amplifier. I will connect the stereo digital coaxial out to a Behringer DCX2496. I will then split the signal to three outputs for my subwoofer, mid-bass module, and Buttkickers. The DCX2496 will handle the crossovers, parametric equalization, phase adjustment, and delay before performing the D/A conversion. I can also control all settings from my computer using Behringer's software.

I received the DCX2496 last week, but I am still waiting on all the cables to arrive before I set everything up. If this works as planned, I will have eliminated a D/A and A/D conversion step.
mojave is offline  
post #68 of 86 Old 03-07-07, 12:46 PM
New Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2
Re: Bass Management System Development


I think that to really convince users here to switch to your new system, you'll need to offer features that aren't available in the current commercial products or market to a user base who's needs aren't being met w/ the current offerings..

ACGREEN's suggestion has merit, although I wonder if the cost penalty of using Firewire vs. CAT5 is going to make it possible.

Another option would be to look at the DIY speaker community. Dipoles & active speakers are growing in popularity in the DIY community & there is a lack of affordable digital solutions that can apply the signal corrections necessary to implement these.

Take a look at the active filters page on the Linkwitz Lab site ( - I'd be particularly interested in an affordable solution that could apply various combinations of these filters to a signal & output to respective amplifier channels. You could offer modules that handle 2 / 4 / or 6 channels, then rely on the IEE1394 backbone to link additional units together. A/D or D/A can be separate modules. Combined w/ a parametric EQ, these would provide the original features you were hoping to implement (room / bass management) + offer something new that would provide product differentiation.

A separate issue would be to increase the usage of IEE1394 in consumer a/v gear but that's something you'd want to push the equipment manufacturers to do. As an interim solution, you'd want to offer a D/D module that makes it possible to maintain a digital connection to downstream components that don't use firewire. A similar device should be provided to convert SPDIF / Toslink / AES to IEE1394 upstream of your modules.
ToSi is offline  
post #69 of 86 Old 03-08-07, 02:13 PM
Posts: n/a
Re: Bass Management System Development


Audio/Video distribution for new (and old) homes is the point.

I believe FireWire has the most compelling advantages for the home AV network. It's not just me, it's also HANA. You'll see many of the major consumer electronics companies are participating in HANA.

I won't explain all the advantages here. TI just authored an article on why 1394 was the best choice for the future home AV and data network.

I think this is coming. My idea is to come to the market ahead of the curve and carve out my piece.

One of the major recent developments in FireWire that enables home AV backbones are the new long haul physical interfaces. FireWire devices can now be implemented to run over standard Cat5 cable up to 100m. The ability to run FireWire over coax is in work and should be available shortly.

The focus of this development has been to enable FireWire AV networks over existing in home Cat5 and coax wiring. The FireWire chips enable both star and daisy chain topologies. Loops are even allowed 1394b enabling redundancy if one segment of the loop breaks.

One wire from any AV component to the next has always been a major feature of FireWire.
post #70 of 86 Old 03-08-07, 04:43 PM
Posts: n/a
Re: Bass Management System Development

Note ToSi's input - another product possibility for the DIY and CEDIA installation market. If powered speakers are in the future, then doing a product for DIY'ers to enable dipole and active speakers now will get your name in the market and get you ready for the bigger market segment. The new small, effecient class D amps could be deployed at the speakers.

Okay, so what is the most likely product?


bass , development , management , system

Quick Reply

Register Now



Confirm Password
Email Address
Confirm Email Address
Random Question
Random Question #2

User Name:
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.


Confirm Password:
Email Address



Activation requires you reply to an email we will send you after you register... if you do not reply to this email, you will not be able to view certain areas of the forum or certain images... nor will you be able download software.


See our banned email list here: Banned Email List

We DO NOT respond to spamcop, boxtrapper and spamblocker emails... please add @hometheatershack DOT com to your whitelist prior to registering or you will get nowhere on your registration.

Email Address:


Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML is not allowed!
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome