Anyone interested in a 22" IB3?

**Sonnie** · **12-19-08, 10:52 AM**

lol... Hey... I could put 40 of these in my great room and have plenty of room for more.

**Fi Audio** · **12-19-08, 04:49 PM**

No specs for the IB22 yet. We are needing to make a couple of changes to the basket as the original cracked in testing... granted we had strapped 85# worth of a new motor design to it and were testing it when it did. Adding a little more webbing to the ends of the legs where they meet the mounting flange.

If there really seems to be a call for something other than an IB driver, its not an issue to make. We have close to 50 standard motor designs to pull from, and can tweak from these or make something entirely new should there be a call for it. Yes a good portion of what is seen on forums is "autosound" oriented, but about half of what we do OEM is for home audio applications. I definitely prefer the HT OEM work

**kryptonitewhite** · **12-19-08, 04:54 PM**

Quote:

Fi Audio wrote:

No specs for the IB22 yet. We are needing to make a couple of changes to the basket as the original cracked in testing... granted we had strapped 85# worth of a new motor design to it and were testing it when it did. Adding a little more webbing to the ends of the legs where they meet the mounting flange.

If there really seems to be a call for something other than an IB driver, its not an issue to make. We have close to 50 standard motor designs to pull from, and can tweak from these or make something entirely new should there be a call for it. Yes a good portion of what is seen on forums is "autosound" oriented, but about half of what we do OEM is for home audio applications. I definitely prefer the HT OEM work

Thank you much for your reply, I'll send an email. I'm tired of shopping around trying to make things work that don't really apply to what I'm after.

**Fi Audio** · **12-21-08, 01:43 AM**

Email sent...
thanks,
Scott

**kryptonitewhite** · **12-21-08, 10:10 AM**

Quote:

Fi Audio wrote:

Email sent...
thanks,
Scott

Christmas came a little early this year, in the form of great news... Thank you Scott. We are nearing the end of our blizzard here in Sioux Falls SD, today should be "warm" as we were -6 with 40mph gusts yesterday. I will take some measurements ASAP.... But the big hurdle is behind me now.

Anyone interested in an IB18 and IB22's ability to work in-car vs IB in home, please refer to this thread:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...tml#post134780

**kryptonitewhite** · **12-21-08, 07:43 PM**

Quote:

Fi Audio wrote:

Ill post some pics shortly of the basket and as other tooled parts come in. Hoping to have things ready to go about March for these, but the cone body is the biggest sticking point right now as we are doing composites in house for the other drivers that will be using this basket. Definitely a cost concern with what is needed for an IB setup. I will see if a simple E glass layup without a real core would work. Otherwise its one more tooling needed to get kraft pulp cone bodies going and that might delay things another month or so...

So what are the different cone details.... What I am getting out of this is composites are stiffer, more rigid, and will make for a more shallow mounting depth? Kraft pulp cone needs to be curvilinear to maintain it's strength, but will make for a deeper mounting depth, a completely different basket?

**jagman** · **12-22-08, 12:33 PM**

Will one be able to mount this driver facing down without causing excessive damage (or shortening the life of the driver excessively)? Just curious as the cone will be pretty heavy. I hope it's OK as my ceiling joists are spaced 24" OC so this driver might just fit between them perfectly.

**kryptonitewhite** · **12-22-08, 06:21 PM**

Quote:

jagman wrote:

Will one be able to mount this driver facing down without causing excessive damage (or shortening the life of the driver excessively)? Just curious as the cone will be pretty heavy. I hope it's OK as my ceiling joists are spaced 24" OC so this driver might just fit between them perfectly.

There is a .pdf from Adire I believe that uses certain thiele small params to determine what drivers are OK to mount horizontal and which ones will sag too much. Doesnt WinISD have something as well?

**jagman** · **12-22-08, 07:23 PM**

I vaguely remember something like that. I just figured it would be better to get it straight from the horses mouth.

**kryptonitewhite** · **12-22-08, 07:31 PM**

Quote:

jagman wrote:

I vaguely remember something like that. I just figured it would be better to get it straight from the horses mouth.

I totally understand, someone once told me "The point is it had to come from the manufacturer, after all, it is his product." to which i wanted to reply "Yes, years ago, Audiobahn once told me their A1500HCT that I owned was 2000 watts RMS"

jus playin! :P

**WmAx** · **12-22-08, 09:28 PM**

I'm just replying to add another YES, I am interested in 22" IB. This makes IB worth doing, assuming your price is a fantastic value, the Fs is insanely low, and this is equipped with a highly linear motor.

-Chris

**anidabi** · **12-31-08, 05:45 PM**

Hi Scott,

this got my eye too. If this is not completely IB oriented driver, how this will work in closed enclosure?

**SteveCallas** · **01-01-09, 05:52 PM**

Could be very interesting and open up some new avenues for subwoofer applications.

Scott, do you foresee the Le allowing this driver to be used with good performance up to 100hz, or will this be mainly suited as a <50hz performer?

**Fi Audio** · **01-06-09, 04:29 PM**

While I dont have my design specs in front of me, with the 2 layer coils that are in the IB3 series right now, they shouldnt roll to above 120 Hz as is. Didnt need 4 layers for impedance, thermal mass, or Bl with the IB3s, so you do get the reduced Le benefit as well. Ill have to check.

But for it really isnt an issue to reduce inductance (as well as linearize it vs excursion) in most applications with shorting rings strategically placed. Seems another thread below is interested in the 22" for sealed applications. For something like that where we will need to increase power handling and motor strength to achieve the desired specs, the higher inductance of the 4 layer coil would need to be combated with some rings.

Thanks,
Scott

**ISLAND1000** · **01-06-09, 09:51 PM**

If the result of all design parameters is a driver that does 15hz to 100hz better than anything else around today, I'll take one.

**onebadmonte** · **01-07-09, 03:40 PM**

I'm interested in some. I know the other IB3 subs don't have this, but what about putting a counter coil on the sub, similar to what the Ascendant Audio Atlas had. This would make the sub a bit more versatile if one wanted to use it in a box.

**kryptonitewhite** · **01-07-09, 08:05 PM**

Quote:

onebadmonte wrote:

I'm interested in some. I know the other IB3 subs don't have this, but what about putting a counter coil on the sub, similar to what the Ascendant Audio Atlas had. This would make the sub a bit more versatile if one wanted to use it in a box.

I second the motion... though it sounds like this sub is already "covered" in it's "high end" capeabilities, I don't see any reason for any drivers from anyone not implementing this idea.

EDIT: If by counter coil you mean alternating the windings to "nearly eliminate" inductance... I didn't study too much into the Atlas drivers, and the interesting wiring variations it had... I got Avalanches and didn't have to worry

**onebadmonte** · **01-08-09, 09:10 AM**

Quote:

kryptonitewhite wrote:

I second the motion... though it sounds like this sub is already "covered" in it's "high end" capeabilities, I don't see any reason for any drivers from anyone not implementing this idea.

EDIT: If by counter coil you mean alternating the windings to "nearly eliminate" inductance... I didn't study too much into the Atlas drivers, and the interesting wiring variations it had... I got Avalanches and didn't have to worry

The counter coil on the Atlas was actually a second voice coil. No power got sent to this coil. It could be shorted with a resistor of a certain value to adjust, and don't quote me on this, but I think the Qts. You would leave the second/counter coil open for IB applications or shorted for sealed/ported box applications. I feel this option leaves a sub open for a wider range of applications. IB one day, big ported box the next, if you change your mind.

**Fi Audio** · **01-08-09, 03:14 PM**

Atlas wasnt a counter coil, but an extra wind to simply change driver Qts. When I had designed the driver both Chad (original owner of Ascendant) and I felt it was a novel idea to have the extra 2 Ohm coil (4 layers for the main 4 Ohm coil and an extra 2 layers for the 2 Ohm coil). It allowed for adjustment to the driver varying the Qts by shorting or leaving it open, or with a pot to vary it anywhere in between. Worked great at that, but 99% of people never used it or understood what to do with it even though there was lots of documentation for it. Really... it confused lots of people and resulted in some driver failures and amp failures when people ran the 2 Ohm coil and not the 4 Ohm, or paralleled both, or.... you name it.
You could wire multiple subs in interesting configurations as well... 3 subs for a 2 Ohm load (series for the 2 and 4 Ohm coils per sub and parallel all 3 drivers). Using a pair of the 2 Ohm coils from two subs as a "3rd 4 Ohm load" for more wiring combinations... Im definitely not opposed to doing that again, but it would be a very niche driver if I did.

Counter coils are another favorite, but a different thing altogether.

My concern with some of the niche drivers is that the car guys would try them out and use things improperly. The DAF (Dumb A$$ Factor) currently limits some of the things I would do under the "Fi" name (the OEM and a good portion of the car crowd know my DAF term and arent offended by it, so please dont flame me for it

). If there is enough interest Im not opposed to a HT specific spin off. It really isnt an issue for us to make smaller tweako runs of drivers for applications like this. Ill give it a little thought and maybe make a poll on what people are interested in.

Thanks,
Scott

**onebadmonte** · **01-08-09, 07:35 PM**

Quote:

Fi Audio wrote:

Atlas wasnt a counter coil, but an extra wind to simply change driver Qts. When I had designed the driver both Chad (original owner of Ascendant) and I felt it was a novel idea to have the extra 2 Ohm coil (4 layers for the main 4 Ohm coil and an extra 2 layers for the 2 Ohm coil). It allowed for adjustment to the driver varying the Qts by shorting or leaving it open, or with a pot to vary it anywhere in between. Worked great at that, but 99% of people never used it or understood what to do with it even though there was lots of documentation for it. Really... it confused lots of people and resulted in some driver failures and amp failures when people ran the 2 Ohm coil and not the 4 Ohm, or paralleled both, or.... you name it.
You could wire multiple subs in interesting configurations as well... 3 subs for a 2 Ohm load (series for the 2 and 4 Ohm coils per sub and parallel all 3 drivers). Using a pair of the 2 Ohm coils from two subs as a "3rd 4 Ohm load" for more wiring combinations... Im definitely not opposed to doing that again, but it would be a very niche driver if I did.

Counter coils are another favorite, but a different thing altogether.

My concern with some of the niche drivers is that the car guys would try them out and use things improperly. The DF (Dummy Factor) currently limits some of the things I would do under the "Fi" name (the OEM and a good portion of the car crowd know my DAF term and arent offended by it, so please dont flame me for it

). If there is enough interest Im not opposed to a HT specific spin off. It really isnt an issue for us to make smaller tweako runs of drivers for applications like this. Ill give it a little thought and maybe make a poll on what people are interested in.

Thanks,
Scott

Sorry about the counter coil mix up I didn’t want to cause confusion. The secondary coil on the Atlas subs are very novel. I totally get your DAF, you can only idiot proof any given item so much. I mean how hard was it to understand, don’t send power to the gold plated terminals on the Atlas. Any who, this is how I would use the 22” IB3. The first two would replace the pair of 15” Atlas I have in my Olds Cutlass Cierra. Yes, IB style, yes, I know it’s a car, let the flaming begin. :P The second two I would use in the house open baffle style. If that didn’t work then I’d mount them in the ceiling IB style, and hope the misses doesn’t divorce me over it.  Adjustable coil or not count me in. P.S. Scott can we get pics of your baskets cut from sheet. Thanks, Hugo (onebadmonte)

**rickp** · **02-01-09, 04:50 PM**

Yes I am interested!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have just installed my 4 FiCar 18s in my line array yesterday. Recently found out we will be moving, probably within a year, so I will definatly build another HT room when we do. I think 4 22s will be just right.

**kryptonitewhite** · **02-01-09, 06:16 PM**

Quote:

Fi Audio wrote:

The DF (Dummy Factor) currently limits some of the things I would do under the "Fi" name (the OEM and a good portion of the car crowd know my DAF term and arent offended by it, so please dont flame me for it

).

Thanks,
Scott

Who you callin a dummy

**kryptonitewhite** · **02-01-09, 06:18 PM**

Quote:

onebadmonte wrote:

The first two would replace the pair of 15” Atlas I have in my Olds Cutlass Cierra. Yes, IB style, yes, I know it’s a car, let the flaming begin. :P Thanks, Hugo (onebadmonte)

so much for settling for the 18" IB in car if I can't get an SUV.... ( I'm trying very hard not to anyway )

**Fi Audio** · **02-02-09, 10:20 PM**

Good luck with that 18 in the Cooper

**Mika75** · **02-15-09, 07:43 AM**

Why 22" ..when one can have 24"

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