Will the Fi BTL be ok for HT? And will the BEHRINGER EP2500 work with my receiver?

**drwang84** · **09-26-07, 02:16 AM**

Hi everyone,
I currently run a Marantz 2230 receiver to a pair of Paradigm Reference Studio/20 speakers and would like to add some low freq for HT.

The room is approximately 14"x20" carpeted. I am considering on getting a BEHRINGER EP2500 for my Fi BTL subwoofer that I took out of my car.
I'm a casual listener who wants to dance at the top of the diminishing returns curve. (You guessed it, I'm a college graduate with limited funds.)

Anyways, here's the main question. Will I be able to hookup the BEHRINGER EP2500 to my old Marantz receiver? It does NOT have a dedicated subwoofer output. It's just a 2-channel receiver. And no I won't part with the receiver, it has a special place in my heart. And if I can use the amp, how would I go about connecting it?

**Exocer** · **09-26-07, 06:26 AM**

I dont know that you'll be able to use the EP2500 with your 2-channel amp. The only inputs that I know of are XLR or 1/4". There aren't any high level inputs on this unit IIRC.

If you have any other pre-outs on your amp, maybe L and R pre-outs you may be able to hook an ep2500 up that way, but you will probably have to use an external device to set a lowpass on your sub and a highpass on your mains so that they're both about 6db down in output by your choice of a crossover point.

**Geoff St. Germain** · **09-26-07, 09:43 AM**

The EP2500 has no high level inputs.

You could try something like these off of a line level output of the marantz:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=266-250
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=266-252
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=266-254

From the specs of the Studio 20s (+/- 2 dB down to 54 Hz) I'd look at using the 50 Hz low pass as that will be closest to matching the roll-off of the Studio 20s.

**cixelsid** · **09-26-07, 11:13 AM**

One needs to know the input impedance of the power amp because that changes the crossover frequency of the F-Mod, as it does for any kind of passive line level crossover. http://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/f...ssiveHLxo.html

To the OP,

Since your receiver has preamp outputs you can buy an active crossover like the Behringer CX2310. This is a much better option than the F-Mods.

Loop the HF out from the 2310 back to the receiver amp in, run the LF out to the EP2500

**WillyD** · **09-26-07, 09:33 PM**

Hey Daniel,

Short answer: Yes the EP2500 will work. Long answer: you'll need to buy another piece of equipment to do what you want to do.

Looking at this manual for your receiver (http://www.jmargolin.com/marantz/manual.pdf) I see that you have a set of pre-outs you can use. On page 3 in the manual it says:

"Special jumper plugs normally interconnect these MAIN IN and PRE OUT jacks. Removing these two plugs allows you to use your 2230 as an independent basic stereo amplifier and/or an independent control center"

Now you could use something like this: http://www.reckhorn.com/index.php?ln=en&prod=f1
It is available here:
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=F-1

That should allow you to go from the PRE OUT on your Marantz, to the input on the F-1, the you'd go from the SAT OUT on the F-1 back to the MAIN IN on the Marantz. And of course go from one of the sub outs on the F-1 to the EP2500.

Thats probably what I'd suggest.

Oh, which BTL do you have?

**drwang84** · **09-27-07, 12:14 AM**

I have a prototype 12" BTL when Scott just started up Fi. I have a RE HC 12" that I might test out as well(designed by Scott also a while back). To say the least, Scott's a great guy to deal with, and he's even better at what he does, it's amazing.

I will most likely go with an active crossover, the Behringer CX2310(cixelsid's recommendation) in particular unless you have an alternative recommendation.

**drwang84** · **09-27-07, 12:21 AM**

Thanks for the help guys. I like the idea of an active crossover which will leave a lot of room for tweaking. Cixelsid, have you used the Behringer CX2310 yourself? It's a pretty good deal. I was browsing ebay and I'm wondering if anyone has ever used a Rane AC22 active crossover (http://cgi.ebay.com/Rane-AC22-Active...QQcmdZViewItem)
Got to go to bed, I'll check back tomorrow. =)
Thanks!

**WillyD** · **09-27-07, 12:50 AM**

Quote:

I will most likely go with an active crossover, the Behringer CX2310(cixelsid's recommendation) in particular unless you have an alternative recommendation.

What I linked to above is an active crossover. The 2310 would work as well, but not necessary for your application. The F-1 is cheaper and simpler.

**cixelsid** · **09-27-07, 10:11 AM**

Quote:

drwang84 wrote:

Cixelsid, have you used the Behringer CX2310 yourself? It's a pretty good deal.

Yes I've used both the 2310 and 3400. For the money either are a steal.

Not needing a line level shifter (CleanBox for example) is an added benefit of using an active unit over passive line level device like the F-Mod.

**drwang84** · **09-27-07, 12:34 PM**

Hey cixelsid,

I got this response from willyD,

"Now you could use something like this: http://www.reckhorn.com/index.php?ln=en&prod=f1
It is available here:
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=F-1

That should allow you to go from the PRE OUT on your Marantz, to the input on the F-1, the you'd go from the SAT OUT on the F-1 back to the MAIN IN on the Marantz. And of course go from one of the sub outs on the F-1 to the EP2500."

So, cixelsid you're saying that if I get the F-1, I need a CleanBox (which I have no idea what it is needed for). Whereas, the Behringer CX2310 has everything I need? I'm just trying to understand what the difference in parts are and I'm quite new to HT. The learning process is fun indeed.

**drwang84** · **09-27-07, 12:59 PM**

Sorry, my mistake. So you're saying that the F-1 will do just the same as the 2310 can accomplish. I can't argue with something cheaper F-1 for $55 shipped vs the 2310 for $88.94 shipped.

I'm also considering this ebay Rane AC22 active crosser (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=012)

Sorry about these newb questions, but as you can see I'm new to HT, however the learning process is very enjoyable. What advantages do I get with the more expensive crossover devices? Perhaps the option to use with my studio/20 speakers?

**brucek** · **09-27-07, 02:45 PM**

Quote:

So, cixelsid you're saying that if I get the F-1, I need a CleanBox (which I have no idea what it is needed for). Whereas, the Behringer CX2310 has everything I need? I'm just trying to understand what the difference in parts are and I'm quite new to HT.

No, if you use an F-1, there is no need for a CleanBox. The Cleanbox is a simple line level amplifier that is sometimes required when a receivers line level output isn't high enough to drive a Pro level amplifier. Actually, even though the EP2500 is considered a Pro amp, the EP2500 accepts a fairly low level to produce full power, so it often matches well to any receivers consumer level output.

I would guess the volume control on the F-1 might eliminate the need for any amplification between the receiver and EP2500.

Quote:

Whereas, the Behringer CX2310 has everything I need?

Maybe a bit of overkill. The F-1 appears capable and cheaper.

brucek

**cixelsid** · **09-27-07, 03:53 PM**

Quote:

brucek wrote:

Maybe a bit of overkill. The F-1 looks capable and cheaper.

And according to the CSS website...."This item is not currently in stock. Will ship as soon as it is available."

The Behringer 2310 and 3400 have exceeding good sound quality. Their performance is on par with units costing $500 and up....The 2310 is readily available for less than $90

The only thing you'll need between the Marantz and the amp is the crossover.

**WillyD** · **09-27-07, 04:33 PM**

No worries. For you, yes, the F-1 will do the same thing you need the 2310 to accomplish.

What advantages do you gain? Well all of these products allow for your studio/20s to be utilized, but should you want to do what folks call a mid-bass setup, the 2310 and the AC22 would let you do that. It'd be like adding a second set of speakers between the studio/20s and your sub. That might actually be a good idea with the studio/20s.

So the AC22 would be a fine purchase if you can get it for a good bit less than the 2310. I bought my 2310 on a bass guitar forum for $65 shipped, so they're out there if you look for them.

**WillyD** · **09-27-07, 04:36 PM**

I certainly have nothing against the 2310. I actually just bought one a couple of months ago. I just felt that the F-1 would do all Daniel needed for less. But like I told him in his FiAudio thread, the 2310 would actually allow him to set up a mid-bass setup quite easily. Thats a plus!

And I bought my 2310 for $65 shipped off a bass guitar forum.

**Sonnie** · **09-27-07, 07:07 PM**

Threads merged.

**drwang84** · **09-28-07, 02:26 PM**

I just order the EP2500 and CX2310 on ebay. I'll let you know how it works out and I'll be back for more help! =)

**drwang84** · **10-10-07, 06:41 PM**

I have received both the amp and the crossover and they look so sexy together. But now I have to hook them up and I'm not sure where to start.

Marantz 2385 receiver --> Behringer CX2310 --> Behringer EP2500 -->subwoofer

Please correct me if I'm wrong: From the receiver Pre-out I connect an audio rca cable to the crossover.(Here's the problem, the crossover only takes XLR, right? From the crossover to the amp I need (1) XLR cable for mono sub. And from the amp to the subwoofer, the speaker wire can be connected to the binding posts behind the plastic covers. And from the subwoofer, how do I connect back to the Main-in?

I tried reading all the manuals together and some of the jargon is a tad confusing. Thanks for taking the time to help me out guys.

So all-in-all I think I need to purchase (2) XLR cables and perhaps something that converts the RCA audio cable to XLR.

**photocrazy8** · **10-19-07, 07:27 PM**

the BTL is ment for car audio SPL so i dont think it would be great for HT

**drwang84** · **03-10-08, 02:46 AM**

Hey guys,
After using the BTL for a month, I did realize it wasn't the best sub for HT haha but luckily I had a 12" RE HC that was reconed by scott about a year ago to drop in for a test. The RE HC did a great job but I feel like it has more potential. Does anyone there have experience in box building or know anyone who can build me a good box in the bay area California? I

**derekbannatyne** · **03-14-08, 02:29 PM**

I didn't have any woodworking experience prior to building my sub, but it wasn't too difficult. I ended up getting the MDF cut at Home Depot and borrowed a jig saw from someone. Having a router with a flush trim bit would have made the job much easier though, as Home Depot doesn't make the most accurate cuts, even with all the lines pre-drawn. If you don't have the time to make a box, maybe you could try Madisound or Parts Express?

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