Getting pro audio from "cheap" devices

[quintosardo]

Hi,
I'm building my studio and I'm buying and building every device (daw, software, outboard, instruments) for a basic starting point.
I am an electronic engineer but I'm new to studio and recording, so I have a strong technical background but almost zero "market" experience.

Because of a relatively low budget I wanted to dig deep in commercial devices specs so to avoid spending all our money for a single esotheric preamp.

This is what I'm going to do (and what will make some people laugh... )

- NO super A/D D/A converters. 4 x terratec PCI Phase88 (3+1rack). Two PCs (two terratec each) linked by Steinberg vst system link. Phase88s are linked so that they are bit-synch'd
- NO ProTools. I hate closed systems. I develop vsts and we'll use ours (www.sknote.it, working on a compressor, now). We'll use Cubase Sx
- (almost) NO mastering outboard
- Super preamps, but NO expensive outboard. I've built preamps (there are interesting DIY kits in internet)
- Very good mics (nothing to do, there...) but NO tube mics (trying to record everything clean and post-process or at least dry/wet double track)
- Tech-21 SansAmp for guitars. Software emulations aren't so good, midi re-callable guitar sound is the best solution...

These are point very different from what the market shows today, this is why I would like to discuss about them here.
I'll try to upload some results when I'll get some material.

Any comment/advice/cryticism/question very welcome

Quinto

[Ethan Winer]

Quinto,

> Because of a relatively low budget I wanted to dig deep in commercial devices specs so to avoid spending all our money for a single esotheric preamp. <

There you go.

> I hate closed systems. <

Me too.

> NO tube mics <

A man after my own heart.



> These are point very different from what the market shows today, this is why I would like to discuss about them here. <

The market is wrong and you are right. But as an engineer you already know that. Conventional wisdom in audio is mostly stuck in the 1400s, where magical properties are valued over decent product specifications. What matters most is having good loudspeakers properly placed in a good room that's properly treated acoustically. As Craig Anderton (EQ magazine editor) once wrote, "No listener gives a rat what mic pre you used."

--Ethan

[brucek]

Conventional wisdom in audio is mostly stuck in the 1400s, where magical properties are valued over decent product specifications.

Yikes, blasphemy.

NO tube mics

Some people like the sound of distortion. Each to his own I guess.

Because of a relatively low budget I wanted to dig deep in commercial devices specs

Mmmm, sometimes difficult to do without your own tests. I'm sure I don't have to tell you the many ways that specs can be manipulated. It makes for a lot of apples to oranges comparisons.

brucek

[quintosardo]

brucek wrote:

Some people like the sound of distortion. Each to his own I guess.

I like tube drive too ! I mean that I try to record clean signal, too (in parallel) so that if I want to change the sound later I can.
With some mics I cannot get back a clean signal, because the tube preamp is inside...

brucek wrote:

Mmmm, sometimes difficult to do without your own tests. I'm sure I don't have to tell you the many ways that specs can be manipulated. It makes for a lot of apples to oranges comparisons.
brucek

That's exactly what I mean! Digging by testing, because super specs (and they never say enough) must be tested anyway. There can be a point in the chain that makes super specs useless

[Ethan Winer]

Bruce,

> Some people like the sound of distortion. Each to his own I guess. <

Well sure, but not in my recording chain!

I can always add a bit of grunge as needed to taste during mixing, and I've done that many times.

--Ethan

[teach]

i am seeing tube mic for 100 US and stuff, its not that expensive to get an ALMOST clean sound anymore.. the more expensive mics are a con i think cause in the end you want to put in dither to add noise.. there you go the digital age.. i think is taking away fom the music..
(but i am no professional)

[drf]

quintosardo wrote:

- Super preamps, but NO expensive outboard. I've built preamps (there are interesting DIY kits in internet)

Any of these kits worth building? do you have some links? I would appreciate it as I enjoy diy and require a half decent preamp at the moment.

Cheers,
dr f

[quintosardo]

Yes, I've built the ones from "Seventh Circle Audio" (just google for it). They sound beautiful, I've built each model.
The downside, for me, are the high shipment costs (from USA to Italy) because there are transformers and case...

[rockshop]

Hello, All.

Just my two cents'.... the best point made, having read all of this, for me, is that the smart startup engineer who originally posted the thread, is keeping his options open, and remaining flexible, by recording a clean workable track, plus all the pretty-coloured stuff, so, as he said, if he wants to change the sound later, he can. "Fix it in the mix" is not, by far, the best option, but having a ton of clean, dry options to A/B or comp, for every major part, is a pretty good idea.

Oh.... and I can't stand closed systems, either, or those with alot of mouth, but few features, and little value... see ya never, PT. I love Magix Sequoia, personally.....

[aaron1234nz]

Sounds like a great system. I am using a very similar one at the moment. The Phase88's are nice but could do with a bit more headroom for my liking. I mainly record live music by taking feeds off a desk - sometimes the desk gain needs to be a touch lower than I would normally have it if I were not recording.

One thing that is important is to have some good quality studio monitors to mix with. I mixed a CD without any which made the process hard (especially for mastering) and the final result was not as good as it could have been.

Another cool thing to do (for live production) is to use the computer as an effects rack. I run the sound from the desk through my phase 88, using an insert on desk, and then use the monitoring feature in cubase to apply realtime VST's.

[Bryan Nemecek]

rockshop wrote:

Hello, All.

I love Magix Sequoia, personally.....

I don't love the price tag!!