My Media Room Makeover, Comments and Suggestions please

[whiteknightoz]

Never really set up my media room properly since i moved in 6 months ago as i never had the black blockout curtains so couldn't really watch it that much with the projector but thought I would plan it out in readiness for my 50" Samsung Plasma next week. I am after some advise on wether my proposed layout is the suitable so dont be afraid to shoot some suggestions. Details of the gear i am using is in my sig line below..

EVERYTHING IN ALL PICS ARE TO SCALE (I think :wacko: )

Dimensions and Layout of Room - the recliners are the 4 leather movie recliners from Super A-Mart so are in an arc but the software app i used wouldnt let me position them like that. All walls apart from the one with the dual doors are gyprock internal/brick external walls. There is an Aircon duct smack bang in the middle of the roof that I didnt put in the pics.

or if feet and inches are more your thing..




Top down view - the lounges are approx 4m from the front wall and offcentre due to the side doors but could be centred if it is going to make a big deal and I will just use one door.

Pic2 - top view


Standing behind the lounge looking forward - the sub (dual 10's) is on the floor directly centre with the front centre channel on a shelf just below the plasma (approx 1.2m), and yeah i know it looks like a painting, the software had no Plasma images to use, just use your imagination.
The front mains are in the corners - should these be bought in from the corner half a metre or so?

pic3 - front wall


Standing at the front of the room looking back - you can see the recliners aren't centre'd due to the side doors needing room to open. I could centre them if needed and just utilise one fo the doors i suppose if required. The rear centre channel is mounted above the back sliding glass door angled down. The 2 rear surround speakers are on el-cheapo cement based stands, would these be better mounted to the side walls behind the lounges angled at the lounges? thats if i can find suitable mounts as these speakers are 750mm tall without the stands. I am thinking of replacing the pine Audio rack with a Server Rack from the IT store room at work.

pic 4 - back wall


Questions i have in addition to above

1. A few weeks ago I got up in the roof and ran speaker cables to all speakers leading back to the rear right corner. I havent layed the RCA for the subs, where can I buy an RCA cable of suitable length (approx 12m)?
2. Whats the best way to get signal to the plasma? I have a long S-Video cable but really want to get a better image if i can. Cat5?
3. Should I hang pictures in the room or leave the walls bear?
4. Lighting !!! - the only light I have is in the cnr of the room above the equipment cabinet, I did this on purpose when i biult the house as I couldn't commit to what lighting i wanted in the room and still cant decide, I dont want to spend a lot of money but want it to look classy at the same time.

Looking forward to the advice.

WhiteknightOZ...
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Samsung PS50Q7HDX 50" Plasma - Soon !!!!
Onkyo TX-SR700 AV 6.1 Receiver
Vue ID800 DVD/Divx Player
2 x Dali Blue 6006 Fronts
2 x Dali Blue 3003 Rears
1 x Jensen SPX-19 Subwoofer
1 x Jensen SPX-15 Front Centre
1 x Polk Audio CS100 Rear Centre
-----------------------------------------------------

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

The 2 rear surround speakers are on el-cheapo cement based stands, would these be better mounted to the side walls behind the lounges angled at the lounges?

That would definitely be an improvement.

The quicktime file below is an interactive walkthrough of how the room would be once complete, use your mouse to navigate around - thought it was kewl .
Whiteknights Theatre Room walkthrough.mov

The link bounced.

I havent layed the RCA for the subs, where can I buy an RCA cable of suitable length (approx 12m)?

Sub cables don’t need to be anything special. I’d just get a regular pre-made RG-59 coaxial cable (like used for antennas) and screw on some RCA adapters.

Lighting !!! - the only light I have is in the cnr of the room above the equipment cabinet, I did this on purpose when i biult the house as I couldn't commit to what lighting i wanted in the room and still cant decide, I dont want to spend a lot of money but want it to look classy at the same time.

Recessed lights.

Looking forward to the advice.

If this is a representation of where your screen is going to be...



...it’s too high. The center of the screen should be no more than 15 degrees above eye level.

Regards,
Wayne

[Prof.]

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whiteknightoz wrote:

you can see the recliners aren't centre'd due to the side doors needing room to open. I could centre them if needed and just utilise one fo the doors i suppose if required.

I would definitely centre the chairs..otherwise anyone sitting near the wall side is not going to get good surround sound...

The fronts and rears need to be away from the side walls, and with rears preferably up higher...
I would move the pink cabinet (equipment rack I presume) to the corner and mount the surrounds above that cabinet..

The fronts should be at least 15" away from the side walls..

If the picture represents where the screen will be, then it's too high..
In the seated position, your eyes should be approx. 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the screen. Slightly up or down from that for personal preference..

whiteknightoz wrote:

A few weeks ago I got up in the roof and ran speaker cables to all speakers leading back to the rear right corner. I havent layed the RCA for the subs, where can I buy an RCA cable of suitable length (approx 12m)?

Why use RCA's? RG6 coax is a better connection, particularly for long runs..

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whiteknightoz wrote:

Whats the best way to get signal to the plasma? I have a long S-Video cable but really want to get a better image if i can. Cat5?

Depends on what type of connections you have on your plasma and AVR...HDMI if you have it..

-

whiteknightoz wrote:

Should I hang pictures in the room or leave the walls bear?

Personal preference again...Ive had it both ways and preferred in the end to not have any..I found them distracting when watching a movie..

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whiteknightoz wrote:

Lighting !!! - the only light I have is in the cnr of the room above the equipment cabinet, I did this on purpose when i biult the house as I couldn't commit to what lighting i wanted in the room and still cant decide, I dont want to spend a lot of money but want it to look classy at the same time.

If you don't have soffits where you could have downlights, I would consider sconce lighting on the walls..

[whiteknightoz]

OK , took the advise into consideration and modified pics. New Pics below.





Main speakers are 2ft in from the side walls, Plasma is dropped to just over 3ft from the floor.


Rear speakers are mounted 5ft high and 2ft from back wall



Thought about this some more. So far I can work out that all I need is a power outlet behind the plasma. As I have the DVD player, my yet to be built HTPC and will have the XBox running through my AV Receiver and will utilise the monitor out to run the plasma.

So this means I need to run 2 video signals from the back of the room to the front - one HDMI from the HTPC for the High Def stuff and another from the Receiver for the rest of the video sources. The AV Receiver options for monitor out are RCA, S-Video or Component. A monitor (Plasma) connected via RCA and S-Video allow you to view the Receivers settings on the monitor whereas monitors connected via Component out don't have this functionality. I like this option as its easy to see what you are doing as the amp's little display means I would have to get out of my chair to follow the prompts.

1. How much better is the picture from composite over S-video?
2. whether i run the S-Video or the 3 RCA's, is it OK to run a video source cable the 10m run or should i look at converting it to Cat5e using one of these converting device?

this is getting me really confused.. anyone know of a software application that you can use to lay out all your wiring needs?

[Prof.]

WhiteknightOZ,

You don't show any projector and screen setup in your renders.Are you planninig on using a projector as well as the plasma?..If so, then you will be able to monitor your settings through the projector..In which case, you can then run either component, DVI or HDMI from the AVR to the projector..

Then you can run component for the plasma...Component is an improvement over S-Video..

Also, is there any reason why you have your surround speakers at the back of the room?
Normally with a 6.1 system surrounds are on the side walls, slightly behind the seated position, with the centre back only on the back wall..

[whiteknightoz]

Prof. wrote:

WhiteknightOZ,

You don't show any projector and screen setup in your renders.Are you planninig on using a projector as well as the plasma?..If so, then you will be able to monitor your settings through the projector..In which case, you can then run either component, DVI or HDMI from the AVR to the projector..

Then you can run component for the plasma...Component is an improvement over S-Video..

Also, is there any reason why you have your surround speakers at the back of the room?
Normally with a 6.1 system surrounds are on the side walls, slightly behind the seated position, with the centre back only on the back wall..

Prof,

I currently have a projector mounted up the back of the room near the rear centre channel but was going to remove it when the plasma was mounted but I like your thinking.. I may leave it there and get a drop down screen that would drop down in front of the plamsa.

As for the positioning of the rear surrounds, I never knew that they should be near the seating position, I thought they had to be at the rear... So if i move them to be just behind the seating position should I have them maounted high up on the wall or use the current stands that would have the drivers around ear height when seated.

I had another idea, I was going to mount the audio gear on a wall rack thus enabling the lounges to be moved back and centred in the room. the only downfall is I am getting further away from the screen so will ahve to see how it looks before I do this..

I love this, I am actually making progress !!

Paul

[Sonnie]

I believe you still need to pull the front and center speakers out from the wall at least a foot, two preferably. You may have to get a stand for the center... it can be lower and angled up if need be.

The sub will most likely do better in the corner for more low end room gain. This would also allow you to drop the display down a little more since the center can be dropped down lower after you move the sub. You can take some measurement on the sub in the middle vs the corner, I don't think there'll be any question that you'll wanna move it over. The surrounds will probably do better above the seating area... facing inward from the sides. The sound from them should not be direct, but rather diffused for an enveloping and realistic surround. Don't move the seating too far back.

[whiteknightoz]

Sonnie wrote:

I believe you still need to pull the front and center speakers out from the wall at least a foot, two preferably. You may have to get a stand for the center... it can be lower and angled up if need be.

The sub will most likely do better in the corner for more low end room gain. This would also allow you to drop the display down a little more since the center can be dropped down lower after you move the sub. You can take some measurement on the sub in the middle vs the corner, I don't think there'll be any question that you'll wanna move it over. The surrounds will probably do better above the seating area... facing inward from the sides. The sound from them should not be direct, but rather diffused for an enveloping and realistic surround. Don't move the seating too far back.

Hmm.. so I move the sub to the corner at the front of the room (like to the left of the left main)?
The rear surrounds should be in line with the seats firing at right angles to the walls - Do I mount them up near the roof angled down towards the seats or have them on floor stands at ear height?
As for the seating I am thinking about getting a quote to get the doors changed to swing out rather than in then I can center the chairs and move them 3ft or so closer to the screen rather than further away.
I will have to check the WAF before I move the front mains 2ft into the room, and thinking about it I can see the kids eyes light up and push them over.

[Ayreonaut]

Use the 38% rule. A good listening position will be 2.32m from the rear wall and 1.63m from the side wall. (X marks the spot.) The main speakers might sound better with plenty of space from the front wall too. Mount the surrounds on the side walls just behind the listeners and aimed at each other. I like my sub out of the corner.

positions.JPG

[Sonnie]

whiteknightoz wrote:

Hmm.. so I move the sub to the corner at the front of the room (like to the left of the left main)?

Yes... and as Naut suggest, you might like it better being out from the corner a little bit. What I would do there is download REW and take some measurements to see which response will be easiest to tame and which will give you the best extension. Generally the corner is better. The measurements will tell the story.

whiteknightoz wrote:

The rear surrounds should be in line with the seats firing at right angles to the walls - Do I mount them up near the roof angled down towards the seats or have them on floor stands at ear height?

Look at Naut's diagram... they should be slightly behind the listening position and above ear level. I would not angle them down, simply mount them with the back flat against the wall.

whiteknightoz wrote:

As for the seating I am thinking about getting a quote to get the doors changed to swing out rather than in then I can center the chairs and move them 3ft or so closer to the screen rather than further away.

Again, consider Naut's diagram and his suggestions for the distances. You may be fine as you are.

whiteknightoz wrote:

I will have to check the WAF before I move the front mains 2ft into the room, and thinking about it I can see the kids eyes light up and push them over.

They don't necessarily have to be 2' out into the room, you can try 1' to start with... just get them out from against the wall. The kids can tip them over from the side as well... besides, that's what the paddle is for...

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Main speakers are 2ft in from the side walls, Plasma is dropped to just over 3ft from the floor.

I agree with Sonnie. Move the sub to the corner, which will allow you to drop the screen some more.

So this means I need to run 2 video signals from the back of the room to the front - one HDMI from the HTPC for the High Def stuff and another from the Receiver for the rest of the video sources. The AV Receiver options for monitor out are RCA, S-Video or Component. A monitor (Plasma) connected via RCA and S-Video allow you to view the Receivers settings on the monitor whereas monitors connected via Component out don't have this functionality. I like this option as its easy to see what you are doing as the amp's little display means I would have to get out of my chair to follow the prompts.

1. How much better is the picture from composite over S-video?

Not sure what’s going on with the plasma vs. projector thing, but I’d run component and composite. Use component for viewing, and composite for when you need to access the receiver’s OSD. You’re not going to be going into the receiver settings all that often, so I wouldn’t sacrifice component just to retain that feature. No reason to run s-video just to get an OSD, so running component and composite makes the most sense.

2. whether i run the S-Video or the 3 RCA's, is it OK to run a video source cable the 10m run or should i look at converting it to Cat5e using one of these converting device?

Ten meters isn’t all that long of a run. No need to get one of those converters – it would probably degrade the signal more than the cable run would. I’m using an S-video run right now that’s probably that long or longer, and I couldn’t see a difference from when I was using a 2-meter run. (but then, I don’t have high def...) Just use good quality 75-ohm cables and you’ll be fine.

As for the positioning of the rear surrounds, I never knew that they should be near the seating position, I thought they had to be at the rear... So if i move them to be just behind the seating position should I have them maounted high up on the wall or use the current stands that would have the drivers around ear height when seated.

I definitely would not go with side mounted surrounds in your situation, especially not the ones you’re using. The room is too small. Take a look at the picture again:

The speakers will be so close to the seating that they won’t fully disperse before the sound reaches the listeners. The person in the left seat will hear only left rear speaker, and same for the person in the right seat. If you want to go with side speakers, you need to trade the direct radiators for some bi- or di-polars. Even then you may find that they’re too close to the seating.

I think I’d stick with the rear locations you were considering before. This puts some distance between them and the seating, allowing the sound to fuly spread before it hits the seating. All viewers should get information from both speakers.

But if you go that route, referring to your revised picture...

...I suggest flipping the speakers upside down. You definitely do not want your tweeters up against the ceiling!!! Flipping them over puts the woofers at the ceiling, which will improve their bass (coupling with boundaries works the same way with the ceiling as it does with the floor), and puts the tweeter closer to the listener’s ears. My rule of thumb is that anytime you mount speakers above the listener’s head, the speakers should be inverted. It’s best if the tweeters are no more than a couple of feet above the listener’s ears.

Personally I don’t see a compelling reason to move the front speakers out into the room. Away from the side walls, sure. I don’t think moving them forward is going to affect imaging at all (like moving them from the side would). The primary reason advantage to moving them forward would be to decrease their bass output (getting them further from a boundary). However, the receiver’s bass management is rolling them out below 80-9 Hz anyway, so that’s already accomplished. If your speakers happen to be really bass heavy, it could certainly help. If not, I see no reason to do it.

By the way - that program you're using for your pictures is way cool, whatever it is.

Regards,
Wayne

[Ayreonaut]

Inquiring minds want to know...

1. Don't we aim the surrounds at each other to deliberately introduce a "ping-pong" reflection and so create a more diffuse surround field?

2. Doesn't the extreme angle of the close speaker to the near listener mitigate the volume difference caused by the distances?

Section View
vertical.JPG

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

1. Hmm… never heard that one before, but any “ping ponging” will be from the soundwaves of the speakers bouncing off the walls. Whether or not they’re aimed at each other has no bearing on that. The diffused soundfield (from direct radiating speakers at least) has to do with a lot of factors, but the most relevant ones are probably how wide of a dispersion pattern the tweeters have and your physical distance from the speaker.

2. That will depend on how close they are behind the listener, and whether or not they’re oriented towards the seating. Obviously the further the better. When they get that close, vertical distance matters as much as horizontal. I'd say probably at least 2-3 feet behind for a hard 90-degree placement (i.e., with the speakers directly facing each other), and double or more that if they're angled towards the seating. Less that that it's hard for a listener close to one speaker to not be overwhelmed by it to the exclusion of the other.

Regards,
Wayne