What's with Yamaha, Denon, and the others ?

[Dain Bramaged]

I started a post like this on another forum website, and I think it deserves some attention on this one as well. My problems is this - I don't understand why Yamaha and others aren't putting HD Radio tuners in their receivers. Yes, I know the Z-11 is going to have one, but I'm not going to spend my next eleventy-three months worth of salary to buy a receiver. Yammy puts XM in most of them, but why should I pay for signal when I can get it free ?

For those who don't think there are many radio stations broadcasting HD signals in their area, I would suggest that they check it out. Here is a listing from just the Twin Cities area of Minnesota. There are 29 HD possibilities and list just keeps getting longer.

KNSR: FM 88.9 Public=HD1; Collegeville
KSJR: FM 90.1 Classical=HD1; St. John's University; Collegeville
KNOW: FM 91.1 Public=HD1 HD2=Classic HD3=unknown; Minneapolis-Saint Paul
KQRS: FM 92.5 Classic Rock=HD1 HD2=Blues; Golden Valley
KXXR: FM 93.7 Rock=HD1 HD2=Comedy; Minneapolis
KTCZ: FM 97.1 Adult Album Alternative=HD1 HD2=Acoustic Adult Rock; Minneapolis
KSJN: FM 99.5 Classical=HD1 HD2=Jazz HD3=News Talk; Minneapolis
KTLK: FM 100.3 News Talk=HD1 HD2=Classic Country HD3=Sports Talk KFAN-AM; Minneapolis
KDWB: FM 101.3 Top 40=HD1 HD2=Dance Party; Richfield
KEEY: FM 102.1 Country=HD1 HD2=New Country; Saint Paul
WLTE: FM 102.9 Lite Rock=HD1 HD2=News; Minneapolis
KZJK: FM 104.1 Jack Mix=HD1 HD2=Smooth Jazz; Saint Louis Park
KQQL: FM 107.9 Oldies=HD1 HD2=80's; Anoka
WCCO: AM 830 News Talk=HD1;Minneapolis
KFAN: AM 1130 Sports Talk=HD1; Minneapolis

A quick search on the web shows that there are 1,502 different radio stations across the US broadcasting at least 1 HD possibility. Check it out for your area.

http://www.ibiquity.com/stationlist.php

From where I stand, there's no good excuse for receiver manufacturers to not incorporate an HD tuner. Before I upgrade my receiver, the new one must have HD radio. Why should I upgrade if a unit doesn't have what I want ?

[Otto]

Hmmm. I think it's just a little slow to catch on from the point of view of the manufacturers. It was quite a while before they put in Sirius and XM, IIRC (although I wasn't really paying attention, it seemed like those were out for years before they showed up in receivers).

I think the adoption rate by consumers also has something to do with it. I've never heard HD radio, and I don't know anyone that has it. It sounds like a good idea, but I think a lot of people are hesitant to replace their current receivers in their cars just to get HD radio. They just think that regular radio is good enough, or they're listening to CDs, iPods, XM or Sirius. I drove a new Subaru the other day, and it was wired for one of the satellites (XM, I think), iPod and it had a 6-CD changer. I didn't see anything about HD. So, there doesn't seem to be any demand for it in cars.

Now, at home, I almost never listen to the radio (sometimes I use a clock radio if I'm working in the basement, and sometimes we listen (to both AM and FM) when we're in the office). I never, ever listen to radio on my "main" system. And when I go to friends' homes, it's usually CDs or PC-based music we're enjoying. Combine that sense of radio-at-home-apathy with the fact that most people that have a "system" aren't quite as "in to it" as we may be -- they just don't care enough to upgrade.

So I think that's the problem -- no user demand. I'm not saying that HD radio is bad, dumb or useless; I've never even experienced it. But until there's enough demand for it, the big receiver manufacturers won't put it in; it's just an added cost for them. You'll see it show up once it takes off more.

In the mean time, I would probably buy something like this, and merge it into your existing system. A separate HD tuner may actually sound better than something they'd integrate into a receiver, and it looks cool. Plus, when your friends as "what's that?" you can tell them all about it! And then you're doing your part to get the word out and generate interest in HD radio!

Anyway, just some thoughts early this morning.

[tonyvdb]

You say that there are approximately 1,502 HD radio stations? Thats hardly enough to even peak most manufacturers interests. Remember there are tens of thousands of radio stations just in the US alone. When that 1,502 number climbs to over 50,000 you may see more interest but until then its just a feature that adds to the cost that 90% of us will never use.

[Sonnie]

I'm not even familiar with HD Radio other than simply hearing that term. What exactly is it and what does it give me that regular radio don't?

I listen to my Bible on CD 90% of the time when I commute to and from work. Other times I'm listening to XM radio... the channels with no commercials. Does HD Radio offer no commercials?

[Otto]

HD radio is a digital repeat of the same content on the "regular" radio stations. They are able to maintain the same frequency, but transmit digitally. I believe it's mp3 quality. There will be commercials. Audio quality will be better, but I also understand that it can be very annoying if you're at the edge of the reception range -- the signal may bounce between analog and digital when the digital starts to break up. I would imagine that receivers would have an option, though, to force it to analog or digital mode only.

And the HD stands for Hybrid Digital, not High Definition, as I had previously thought.

[bobgpsr]

tonyvdb wrote:

You say that there are approximately 1,502 HD radio stations? Thats hardly enough to even peak most manufacturers interests.

But in my area the demographic is the much more affluent who listen and support the HD radio stations. I give to my eastern Iowa jazz station, KCCK, who simulcast broadcasts with HD. I am just about ready to upgrade an AVR since I need 7.1 dts-HD MA decoded -- but I'll wait for HD capability (agree with the OP). XM/Sat radio means nothing to me.

[Dain Bramaged]

Well, actually, there aren’t tens of thousands of conventional radio stations in the US. In fact, as of 9/30/06 the FCC registered stations number 4,751 AM, 6,252 FM (commercial), and 2,790 FM (educational), for a grand total of 13,793. So 1,502 stations broadcasting in HD qualifies as a significant number, especially when you consider the length of time that HD radio has been around. My guess would be that by the end of the decade at least ½ of the stations will offer at least 1 channel of HD.

Radio stations that broadcast in HD usually have the choice to broadcast with more than 1 channel of HD. I have heard of some stations broadcasting with up to 3 different channels. The first channel is usually the same content as that being broadcast in analog. Typically however, the additional channels are commercial free.

The increase in audio quality is significant. There is no background noise, the signals aren’t clipped, and the dynamic range is greatly improved. Most say that it rivals CD quality. By comparison, HD radio over analog radio is a greater improvement than CDs over vinyl records. The only real drawback is that the digital signals don’t travel as far as analog signals. Depending on the terrain, you usually need to be within 25 miles of a tower.

[Sonnie]

Welp... 25 miles from a tower will definitely put me out of range of anything. Of course I don't care for the commercials and will continue to pay my $7-8 per month for XM. I don't listen to radio anyway at home... other than some of the Sirrius stations on Dish Network satellite... and that ain't very often. It would have to be something to benefit me in the car.