Apartment Life Drag....

**sampaw** · **01-28-08, 09:39 AM**

Hi all,

Please excuse me if this is the wrong board for this, but we are feeling a bit vulnerable....

Here's the situation: My wife and I (married 28 yrs) are approaching 50. Because of difficult times in the technology market, we have been forced to live in apartments for the last 8 years. We have lived in our current apartment for the last six years. We have never had a problem with any of our neighbors during that time. Usually, when we hear noise that bothers us, we realize that its just a party, or someone watching a movie etc...we never complain...people live here. As apartments go, it is certainly one of the quietest we have ever lived in. Very well built. We are on the 3rd floor. There is an apartment next to ours(shared wall) and two across the breezeway. The guy next door to us (shared wall) is driving us crazy.

I just bought a little HT in a box. A sony DAV-HDX26x. Little thing. We listen to music, watch movies etc... at *very* nominal levels. Niether my wife or I have any interest in loud crap any more. Passing peaks may be a bit loud, but generally, we can easily carry on a conversation over the music/movie. We mightlisten to it at 26 our of 50.

Anyway, the guy freaks, calls the police, security, etc...all of sudden there is banging on the door, Security yelling that "I can hear it! I can hear it!" Obviously, there is a balance. We want to live in peace with our neighbors, but we also want to live.

Has anyone had a similar situation? How did you handle it?

Thanks.

**Mike P.** · **01-28-08, 09:52 AM**

Hi Sam and welcome to the Shack! Sorry to heat about your situation. Personally, I would contact the owners of the building to determine what the rules are. If there is a rule that "if security can hear it from the hallway then it's too loud", then you're out of luck. If you can't negotiate a happy medium with your neighbor, then your options are to keep it turned down, wear headphones or move. Hopefully you and your neighbor can resolve this. Good Luck.

**Wayne A. Pflughaupt** · **01-28-08, 02:01 PM**

Hi Sam,

Movies can be very dynamic. Does your HTIB have a “nighttime” setting? That would compress the sound like you see with TV programming, and take away all the spikes in volume. That might take care of it.

Also, bass frequencies pass through walls pretty easily. If you have the HTIB’s sub sitting against “his” wall, it would probably be very helpful to move it to the other side of the room.

Regards,
Wayne

**MatrixDweller** · **01-28-08, 03:30 PM**

When I lived in a apartment we only had one noise complaint. My room mate and I had a rather large friend over who was a heel walker. We always had the music turned up and threw quite a few parties. The pounding of his feet going through the floor is what caused it.

The HTIB's sub might be vibrating through the floor and wall structures. You could try getting a thick slab of rock or rubber and putting the sub on it and/or get some spikes and replace the feet of the sub. You could also make some acoustical treatments and place them on the wall you share with him.

Is the apartment concrete construction or wood (or metal) and drywall? Multidwellings are supposed to have extra layers between the floors/walls for fire and sound protection. If it really is bad there could be a gap inside the wall (made by a rodent, etc) letting the sound through.

You might also just have a touchy neighbor. Maybe you should introduce yourself and apologize and let him know you don't want it to happen again. Maybe he works nights and was trying to sleep or has insomnia or something. If you're lucky maybe he'll let you sit in his apartment while your wife adjusts the volume to see what a tolerable level is.

**Funkmonkey** · **01-29-08, 12:19 PM**

The old me would crank it up to show him what loud really was! But now, I would try to talk to him about it, explaining that you have lived there for several years, never had a problem... invite him over to have a beer or something... like a welcome to the building, sorry about the noise kind of a thing. If you make friends with him, or try to, he is way less likely to call the cops, or management, or even complain at all. If he did complain, he would probably be more inclined to knock on your door and himself if he knew you... If all that doesn't work you could start shoving foam earplugs under his door...

**conchyjoe7** · **01-29-08, 12:30 PM**

I unfortunately had a situation exactly like that, and as is yours; it was unpleasant, but I was able to solve it. I had lived in the same unit with my then wife for 6 years and had never had a complaint either, and as you do, so did we: We kept it down to a minimum, but we lived there enjoy music and films and played them both. Then, in moves 2 very unsociable "ladies" downstairs. All of a sudden there's banging on my floor, security is called, who says (exactly like yours apparently) "I can hear it, I can hear it". So what he can hear it...that's irrelevant. What we did to solve it is we went to the manager of the property who knew us as friendly, responsible people that had never before had any complaints lodged against us in 6 years. The manager then went to the 2 downstairs and it was arranged that I would turn the system on at our normal listening level and they would be downstairs and listen to it with the manager and also to confirm that that was in fact the level we normally played at. So, it was done...The manager told the 2 "ladies" that yes, she could hear a little sound, but these were apartments and as such that is to be expected. She also told the 2 "ladies" that if they wanted to live in total quiet, that they should purchase a home, but that the level at which I was playing my music and movies was in no way offensive or obtrusive to anyone with normal demands. Never heard anymore from the 2 complainers...they moved out 3 months later and the people that replaced them never uttered a single complaint. We lived there another 2 years without another single complaint. Sounds to me like you have a malcontent next door, and I'd try what we did. Show the manager this reply (if you think it would help) along with your original post and your concerns and I think you'll get it worked out. While we're all entitled to "quiet time", we're not (in an apartment) entitled to total isolation...some people are just always miserable!
Good luck...
Cheers,
Konky.

**BleedingStar** · **02-10-08, 02:31 AM**

I live in an apartment complex myself, but luckily I only have one neighbor to the side and no one below or above me. I have not once had a single complaint yet, and I have tri-sub system. I'm under the impression that the walls are either very very thick (since i've never heard a single bit of noise from next door other than his shower through the pipes), or that he is just really cool with it all.

However, I do a get a bit nervous with some movies and music that the bass could get pretty loud next door and I end up turning it down a bit, my main question is, what are the best treatments to prevent BASS frequencies from getting next door.

**olddrum1** · **02-10-08, 04:30 AM**

Sam, My situation is a little different but similar. I like to watch a movie in the evening but My wife turns in early in that she goes to work at a very early hour. What I have done is to invest in a very good heatset. You can get a splitter and two headsets. This might not solve the problem totally but might ease the tension a little with your neighbor. On the other hand it negiates any reason to have surround sound. Speak with your Landlord informing him that you feel that the noise level is not at all to high and that you feel that it is well within a normal level. Let the neighbor call the authorities. When they arrive inform them that you have spoken with the Landlord of the situation. They will eventually tire of coming out and look at the person as something of a kook. You are either within your rights or you are not and only you know that.

**Wayne A. Pflughaupt** · **02-10-08, 09:40 PM**

Quote:

my main question is, what are the best treatments to prevent BASS frequencies from getting next door.

Aside from solid concrete walls and ceiling, not much.

The best thing in a residential situation is triple-layered sheetrock, but I’m sure that’s totally out of the question.

The point is, it takes mass to block out low frequencies. They’re tough to deal with.

Regards,
Wayne

**BleedingStar** · **02-11-08, 12:01 AM**

Yeah, bass just seems to travel through anything. Just wasn't sure if there was any other great ways to block stuff. For now I think i'm okay, since i've yet to have a single complain... but it is definitely a point of interest for us HT nuts who live in mult-family residences.

**louthewiz** · **02-13-08, 10:37 PM**

I live in a 6 family building on the second floor and I always use my setup on weekends and I never play past 10;pm , oh and am the building mgr.

**hyghwayman** · **02-19-08, 07:25 PM**

I live in a duplex and the owners mother use to live above us. She loved to blast the TV even when she wasn't there, and my wife and I put up w/ it until school was in. Then one night around 10:30pm, 30 mins past my youngest boys bed time I went up stairs and told her it was late and my boys were trying to sleep. I also talked to the owner because it was almost a daily thing for 3 months. Then my oldest boy got a Drum set for Christmas, he would play after school. One day I got a knock in the afternoon from my neighbor asking me what that noise was, she looked drunk but had only been sleeping. Well not long after that she moved out and into her sons house and we haven't had a new neighbor since. That was over two years ago!

Good luck w/ your neighbor,
hyghwayman

**Gillian** · **03-01-08, 11:57 PM**

hi! I was thrilled to find this forum and particular thread because I am living this situation - but from the other side. I live below an HT owner in my condo. This is an investment I made for the long-term (particularly in this housing market) so any strife caused by the upstairs neighbor cannot be solved just by moving away... So I was hoping that, if I shared my perspectives with you, I might get your thoughts and insight in return.

The "suffering" that I endure due to the HT system has nothing to do with intolerance - or volume. It has to do entirely with the constant "boom, boom, boom" of every sound effect in the movie upstairs. Every screeching car, gunshot or explosion. More often than not, I cannot hear a single bit of dialogue, so I know that my neighbors have thought that they were being considerate by keeping the volume at a respectable level. It's the incessant vibrations and reverberations that drive me nuts.

I had a roommate once who told me, frustratedly, that she couldn't turn down the bass on her stereo because she did not have that option. My neighbors upstairs have told me that they have merely hooked their computer to their TV to watch some DVD's (and that their TV is off the floor). I cannot tell whether or not this is true. It seems that there must be more than that.. like, perhaps, they've added some kind of speakers to enhance their tv?

I am hoping that you might provide some insight as to whether it is true that some systems will not "allow" any modification to bass setting levels - and what I can ask my neighbors to do to help me not feel like I am in the middle of a thunderstorm, train track or airport runway. I know you guys commented about the complaining people being a minority.. but I gotta tell you, when you physically feel the boom, boom, booming vibrations for hours on end, day after day, it's not fun. So I am truly looking for the technical background to understand what options my neighbors might have on their system (indeed if they have one) or in their speaker configurations (if they do not) so that we can work together to bring my standard of living back to where it was while still enabling them to enjoy their movies.

Thanks so much!

**tonyvdb** · **03-04-08, 09:31 AM**

I have not used or seen a TV or decent stereo system that did not at least have the option to adjust the bass and treble controls. If your feeling the bass then they most likely have a small sub or there tv has one built in as did the Sony CRT Trinatrons of the late 90s.
Is the apartment wood construction? if its concrete then they must be running it fairly loud.

**MatrixDweller** · **03-04-08, 11:47 AM**

Quote:

Gillian wrote:

... I cannot hear a single bit of dialogue, so I know that my neighbors have thought that they were being considerate by keeping the volume at a respectable level. It's the incessant vibrations and reverberations that drive me nuts.

The mid to high range frequencies won't pass through the floor in the condo as it would have some soundproofing being that it's a condo and building codes usually dictate a certain STC level (60+ I think). Bass will pass through though and STC levels are measured for frequencies above 125Hz (100Hz for IIC). An STC level of 60 will reduce a 90dB sound to 30dB which is pretty quiet but the bass might be 60dB which is definitely not quiet.

In typical condo construction the builder is not going to go the extra mile to improve soundproofing more than he has to. Typically the lowest bidder wins and extra soundproofing could kill the deal for him. Even when using normal soundproofing (ie: double drywall, resilient channel, etc) the contractor can sometimes mess up and the end result is a slightly less than desired STC level. The building inspector isn't going to test sound levels, unless it's grossly apparent, and will just assume from the architectural drawings and rough building inspection that it is correct.

My sister-in-law lives in my basement and is a huge Hip Hop fan. I live in a detached house and have done some sound proofing but the deep bass can still be heard pounding away. The sound energy goes right through the structural supports from the basement to the first level. I can't hear anything on the third level though.

She is playing her music from her computer with a Logitech 2.1 setup (sub + small speakers). She listens to it a little louder than normal. What I did to mitigate it slightly was to put the sub on a rubber pad (I can still hear it though). Your upstairs neighbours, as well as my sister-in-law, really need to respect the volume level they listen with.

My advice would be to speak nicely with your upper neighbours or write them a note. Mention that you can hear that they have a big sound system up there and it's interfering (and you're upset that you never get invited over to watch movies). They probably don't have a clue that they have things too loud as no one has complained (yet). Tell them to turn their sub down, move it to another position in the room, use night mode, or listen at lower volume levels. The other option (if they aren't nice people) is to file a noise complaint with the police or landlord.

Plain and simple though...a HT or stereo with lots of bass isn't appropriate at high volume level in an apartment or condo. It's all about respect and I find a lot of people these days do not consider others.

**Gillian** · **03-04-08, 12:38 PM**

Thanks so much for the replies on this! The building is concrete. There is no guarantee that, when the previous owners upstairs swapped out carpeting for hardwood (linoleum?) floors, they put in the requisite soundproofing. Since I currently can hear the clicking of their dog's claws on the floor, I have serious doubts about the soundproofing compliance. What's maddening is that, if I go outside and listen, I really cannot hear any noise. It's only the noise that permeates the ceiling. I am afraid that a complaint to the city will go unheeded as the bass most likely will not register on a decibel-meter. I know we have an ordinance against car stereos with excessive bass but nothing specific to buildings. Does anyone know whether bass would qualify as a violation of standard noise regulations? Thanks!

**tonyvdb** · **03-04-08, 12:57 PM**

The fact that you mention that they replaced the flooring with hardwood that may be grounds for a complaint to the operator of the condo complex as this may have violated the condo bylaws if done incorrectly.

**MatrixDweller** · **03-04-08, 02:09 PM**

If you made a noise complaint the police would have to come over to your place and hear it. It would probably have to be after a certain time of day (11pm where I live). In Canada we have a general Disturbing the Peace" law. Any excessive noise after 11pm can result in a fine.

Condos can sometimes have ridiculous rules like the colour of curtains you're allowed. They may have something about excessive noise, no matter what time of day, and the condo corp could hand out fines. The amount of the fine could increase for multiple offenses. The condo board would be the first place to go to if you couldn't solve it by talking to your neighbours.

tonyvdb's comment could also come into play.

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