The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

[Sonnie]

I just cannot resist...

The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

This is a multiple choice poll, however, if you vote that you agree with all or disagree with all, do not vote on the individual questions or your votes will be deleted.

Do you agree... if not, then why not? (This is not an option... it is a requirement as part of the poll!) If you do not agree, then you must post why you do not agree or your vote will be stripped.

This is a public poll... click any vote to see how members voted.

Play nice ... remember our Forum Rules and Zero Tolerance!

[fibreKid]

Congratulations... you have found the missing link!

What did I win??


Looks like there might be a permission or missing document problem.

[salvasol]

I found the lies ... with the snake

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...-oil-lies.html

[Sonnie]

Try it now!

[tonyvdb]

It made me laugh to read them all as I totally agree with all of it. I know someone on here is going to pipe in say that they could prove that they are wrong but I always say if your ears cant hear or see a difference who cares what the scopes and other electronic testing equipment says.

[Funkmonkey]

Nice. I am glad to hear that I am not alone thinking that there is a lot of mumbo-jumbo in the audio world. I must admit that several years ago I fell victim to the cable/interconnect lie. I spent about $40 (at the time that was a lot of money for me) on a pair of stereo RCA-RCA cables that looked a lot cooler than the patch cords that came with the CD player, when the salesman promised that they would improve the sound. I proceeded to hook them up and hide them behind my equipment, resulting in no difference in sound quality what-so-ever. Still have those cables, still use them, still think they look cool when I rewire something, and still think I got ripped off!!!

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Here’s my favorite quote from the article:

If you can afford a fancy power conditioner you can also afford a well-designed amplifier, in which case you don’t need the fancy power conditioner.

I pretty much agree with all of it, except for the cables. I generally not a believer in that stuff, but I have seen two instances where I could hear a difference. Which was surprising, because I wasn’t expecting anything at all. So I’m hesitant to denounce the idea outright.

Just go into it with clear eyes and know that you're just spending the extra money for aesthetics.

Aesthetics that no one will ever see... Now that I don’t get.

I never could figure out the ABX foes, with their complaints about additional switches, etc. How many switches and relays does the signal go through as it is? Let’s see, the pre-amp source selector, the amplifier relays (that many have), the amp’s speaker selector switch, etc. Silly, just silly.

Regards,
Wayne

[avaserfi]

Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote:

Here’s my favorite quote from the article:
I pretty much agree with all of it, except for the cables. I generally not a believer in that stuff, but I have seen two instances where I could hear a difference. Which was surprising, because I wasn’t expecting anything at all. So I’m hesitant to denounce the idea outright.

There are certain situations in which different cables will be audible, but this is only if the cable is either not designed properly or is not being used properly such as if the cable is not of sufficient gauge for run length in relation to resistance.

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

avaserfi wrote:

There are certain situations in which different cables will be audible, but this is only if the cable is either not designed properly or is not being used properly such as if the cable is not of sufficient gauge for run length in relation to resistance.

But would you expect to hear a difference on lower-end PA speakers??? Needless to say, it was shocking...

Regards,
Wayne

[avaserfi]

Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote:

But would you expect to hear a difference on lower-end PA speakers??? Needless to say, it was shocking...

Regards,
Wayne

That is pretty surprising. What kind of cables were they? It sounds like they were designed like complete and utter poo and that is just plain hard to do maybe there was a goal with those cables? I have encountered a pair of cables that were designed specifically to EQ the high end for a gradual roll off.

[thxgoon]

Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote:

But would you expect to hear a difference on lower-end PA speakers??? Needless to say, it was shocking...

Regards,
Wayne

Yes. The cables act in concert with the speakers and the amp as an RLC system and the author mentions this in the article. If there's something funky on one side of the cable, or if there's something funky with the cable then it's possible that it could make a difference. The catch is that there's no guarantee or 'spec' you can look for. It's possible that in one of these senarios the cheaper wire may sound better!

[thewire]

article wrote:

The truth is that biamping makes
sense in certain cases, even with a passive
crossover, but biwiring is pure voodoo.

my amplifiers manual wrote:

If only one speaker is to be used, connect it to the SYSTEM (A) terminals.

I do this. I use my receivers amplifiers also. I plan not to later on when/if I have more sensitive speakers.

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

avaserfi wrote:

That is pretty surprising. What kind of cables were they? It sounds like they were designed like complete and utter poo and that is just plain hard to do maybe there was a goal with those cables?.

Well, you probably won’t believe this – I still can’t believe it.

Everything was set up in our warehouse-cum-showroom, and we were using an old Technics CD player with both RCA and balanced XLR outputs for demo purposes – or in our case, just to have some music to work to! Typically we were using the RCA jacks, but for some reason one day I used the balanced – maybe the RCA cables were missing, I don’t remember. Just used some cheap mic cables we had laying around (which is what we mostly sold). Well, I was amazed at the improvement in SQ, just by using the XLR connections over the RCAs. Sure wasn’t expecting anything. You can bet I was using the XLRs exclusively after that!

Here’s the kicker: Sometime later I popped the cover on that Technics CD player and almost had a heart attack at what I saw. It really didn’t have balanced outputs at all. Someone had retro-installed some chassis-mount XLRs and wired them directly to the RCAs!!!!!

‘Course, now that I think about it, it’s possible the difference could have come from using the mixer’s balanced inputs instead of unbalanced. There will be some extra circuitry involved at the console, even if the source isn’t balanced.

Regards,
Wayne

[lcaillo]

Most of the "lies" I generally agree with, but nearly all of them has some caveat that needs to be considered or some degree of truth to it. The problem is that rather than getting to the bottom of why people experience what they feel they do, one side wants to promote the idea as the be-all and end-all and the other side is bent on proving them wrong.

Science that starts with the goal of disproving lies is as wrong as the lies themselves. It may seem to justify self-righteousness, but it simply polarizes. In most of the debates and arguments about these issues that I have experienced, there is more interest in proving one's point than interest in learning, discovery, and the search. This is unfortunate, because we have so many great tools that could be applied to both the hardware and the perceptual parts of the experience. Home Theater Shack at least has some open minded people who are willing to discuss hese matters in a civil discourse without the vitriole.

Like my sig on AVS reads...the correct answer is, "it depends."

[eugovector]

This looks like fun, don't have time to read it now, but will after I get to work. My prediction, I will agree with 90%.

[imbeaujp]

Verry interesting post !

[jr1414]

I can agree with all except the power conditioner. The difference I found was on the video side, however. I could never tell a difference with audio, but I noticed less "ziggy's" on test patterns with my PJ.

[alan monro]

Sonnie . Isn't it good to expose all the lies to all the members . At Last . If there is a member who has been hypnotized by a unscrupulous salesmen may he awaken to the lies . Alan .

[eugovector]

I thought I would end up disagreeing with several points, but he always qualified his statements right at the end:

-Speakers and headphone potentially benefiting from break-in
-LP superior to CD because of mastering differences
-Bi-wiring is not bi-amping

It is interesting to see the people who do disagree though.

[Sonnie]

Those who disagree should state why they disagree... just as James did about the power conditioner. Obviously it made a difference and it would be nice to know why it did if anyone would have an idea. I meant to make it a public poll, but I guess I forgot to check the button.

[Sonnie]

Actually it is a public poll ... just click on the number to see who voted.

[drf]

It certainly is fun to think my DIY $100 GC amp has less THD than a $12,000 valve amp.

[imbeaujp]

Hello,

I agree with many of them except:

Cable - I can hear a difference between a 5$ analog interconect and a well home made interconect build with quality canaire cable and good RCA plugs. So I am not ok to say that interconect analog cable does not make any difference in sound. Also, if cable make difference in sound, that does not mean that one cable is more HI-FI than another. But I totally agree that AC cables does not make any difference.

Valve amp - Again, the sound is not better with a vacuum amp, it is different. This is the same case with vinyl over CD. If we say that there is no difference between different amplifier or source, so why dont we buy all the same brand and at the lower price possible ?

The Power Conditionner - Here it depends. If your AC line is clean, no groud loop, no RF interference in your video line, the conditionner will not give you much improvment. But this is not my case. The Power Conditionner give me a cleaner sound and video over cable. This is a fact. Many of recent audio component are cheeper than some vintage one and the AC filters are cheeper. So the PowerConditioner could prevent from AC fluctuation (thunder) and protect your components.

Any comments ?

[Sonnie]

imbeaujp wrote:

Cable - I can hear a difference between a 5$ analog interconect and a well home made interconect build with quality canaire cable and good RCA plugs. So I am not ok to say that interconect analog cable does not make any difference in sound. Also, if cable make difference in sound, that does not mean that one cable is more HI-FI than another. But I totally agree that AC cables does not make any difference.

I think you misread what he said about this. I would say you could hear a difference between "some" $5 interconnects and a good home made or otherwise quality built interconnect, but not all. Why? Because you can buy and build a very good interconnect for $5. You may have to buy the connectors and wire in bulk to get to the $5 price point, but it can be done.

I suspect if you hear a difference, then there is something faulty with one cable or the other.

To quote the writer: The lie is that high-priced speaker cables and interconnects sound better than the standard, run-of-the-mill (say, Radio Shack) ones.

He qualifies his claim: The simple truth is that resistance, inductance, and capacitance (R, L, and C) are the only cable parameters that affect performance in the range below radio frequencies. The signal has no idea whether it is being transmitted through cheap or expensive RLC. Yes, you have to pay a little more than rock bottom for decent plugs, shielding, insulation, etc., to avoid reliability problems, and you have to pay attention to resistance in longer connections.

imbeaujp wrote:

Valve amp - Again, the sound is not better with a vacuum amp, it is different. This is the same case with vinyl over CD.

Again, I think you misunderstand his claim. He does not say that they are not different, in fact he very much says they are different. No doubt vinyl and CD are different as well.

Here is the lie: Unbelievable! And so is, of course, the claim that vacuum tubes are inherently superior to transistors in audio applications—don’t you believe it.

Whatever vacuum tubes can do in a piece of audio equipment, solid-state devices can do better, at lower cost, with greater reliability. Even the world’s best-designed tube amplifier will have higher distortion than an equally well-designed transistor amplifier and will almost certainly need more servicing (tube replacements, rebiasing, etc.) during its lifetime.

imbeaujp wrote:

The Power Conditionner - Here it depends. If your AC line is clean, no groud loop, no RF interference in your video line, the conditionner will not give you much improvment. But this is not my case. The Power Conditionner give me a cleaner sound and video over cable. This is a fact. Many of recent audio component are cheeper than some vintage one and the AC filters are cheeper. So the PowerConditioner could prevent from AC fluctuation (thunder) and protect your components.

Again, I don't think you disagree with him. He qualifies the lie: “All Bryston amplifiers contain high-quality, dedicated circuitry in the power supplies to reject RF, line spikes and other power-line problems. Bryston power amplifiers do not require specialized power line conditioners. Plug the amplifier directly into its own wall socket.” What they don’t say is that the same is true, more or less, of all well-designed amplifiers.

The biggest and stupidest lie of them all on the subject of “clean” power is that you need a specially designed high-priced line cord to obtain the best possible sound. Any line cord rated to handle domestic ac voltages and currents will perform like any other. Ultra high-end line cords are a fraud.

[eugovector]

I also think it's interesting how all it takes is one time, and you're sold, the exception that proves the rule so to speak.

I could use 50 random cables, and the one time I hear any difference, good or bad, I'm sold on expensive cables.

Don't get me wrong, we all generalize. I have had great experiences with monoprice, and because of that, I recommend them for every situation. However, I don't feel bad about it because monoprice saves you money. If you buy 3 cables from monoprice and the third one is junk, 3 monoprice cables and one Monster cable (ought to replace the defective monoprice one) still cost less then just buying 3 Monster cables (or 2, or 1.1 for that matter).