HT question

[fernalfers]

At what Speaker volume do you guys watch your movies at? It seems the louder i go the better my Center channel sounds. Just curious when you guys watch movies at a loud level where are you at on the receiver dial?

[bonehead848]

haha, I likes it loud! As long as I am not watching at like 1 am or something i keep my hk cranked. It is a much more immersing experience.

[eugovector]

There's an actual science about this, it has to do with how your ears are more sensitive to certain frequencies at various decibel levels. Read up on Fletcher-Munson, Steven's Loudness Curves, and others.

Technologies like Audyssey are working to make sure your speaker sound as good (or bad, I guess) at a low volume as they do at a high volume.

[Prof.]

fernalfers wrote:

At what Speaker volume do you guys watch your movies at? It seems the louder i go the better my Center channel sounds. Just curious when you guys watch movies at a loud level where are you at on the receiver dial?

That depends a lot on the DVD you're playing...and of course your equipment, and the room acoustics..
As an example...I can play Star Wars 1,2 & 3 at -3.5dB..But if I play 4,5 & 6 of the re-digitised versions at that level, then I would probably blow my eardrums...The highest I can go with those is -9dB.
For most other DVD's..-8dB..

[salvasol]

Prof. wrote:

That depends a lot on the DVD you're playing...and of course your equipment, and the room acoustics..For most other DVD's..-8dB..

That's to loud Prof.

I agree that the volume depends on the DVD material ... I play most at -15dbs (volume dial is a little over half I think, volume is from -80db to +16.5db)

[Prof.]

salvasol wrote:

That's to loud Prof.

And that's in a room just 10' x 15'..
But the room is virtually acoustically dead, and it takes a bit of power to stir things up..

[drf]

Are you guys quoting the figure on your volume dials? These are not exactly compareble are they?

-15dB one one system could result in the same room spl as -9db on another

[Sheep]

Movies and films are monitored at 85dBC(Hence the saying 85dB reference volume). So if you want it to sound how the engineer intended it, that is probably the best volume to use. As stated earlier, the human ear has a different frequency response at different volumes, and Fletcher Munson plotted these, showing that roughly 85dB is the optimum for playback. Anything higher will have a 1-4KHz emphasis and anything lower will have a loss of low end.

HTH,
SheepStar

[Prof.]

drf wrote:

Are you guys quoting the figure on your volume dials? These are not exactly compareble are they?

That's very true..If I put a different AVR in my room, then I would probably have different figures..
Also the efficiency of the speakers will affect volume levels required for optimum listening level..

[Prof.]

Sheep wrote:

Movies and films are monitored at 85dBC(Hence the saying 85dB reference volume). So if you want it to sound how the engineer intended it, that is probably the best volume to use. As stated earlier, the human ear has a different frequency response at different volumes, and Fletcher Munson plotted these, showing that roughly 85dB is the optimum for playback. Anything higher will have a 1-4KHz emphasis and anything lower will have a loss of low end.

HTH,
SheepStar

Does this figure of 85dB refer to an averaged listening level of any DVD?...
Considering the dynamics we hear in some movies,and as to the type of sound source used, this could vary considerably, depending on how much dynamic is set on the AVR..
Or does it refer to peak levels?
I'm sure some of my peak levels exceed 85dB.!!

I certainly hope it doesn't refer to lowest level sounds...

[Sheep]

From what I was taught, the average level is 85dB. Obviously peaks will go over that, otherwise play back would be pretty boring!

The 85dB rule is mainly a general practice, most proper studio's use this. Apparently it used to be 75dB, but has since been upped to 85dB. However, there is good chance other studio's might go about this differently. I would still use 85dB based on what Fletcher Munson found.

SheepStar

[Prof.]

So it's the averaged level...So how would one set that level for any given DVD, considering that there are variations in output level between one DVD and another!!?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I can't see how one would know what the average listening level is for a particular DVD, considering the huge variations in output level..without using an SPL meter all the way through a movie and then averaging the different levels..
And that would apply to that movie only..

[Sheep]

I would use a test tone. Find out what rating on the volume control is 85dB and use that. It would be impossible to calibrate it with a source that varied in volumes as much as a movie. Ultimately you can't have it at 85dB all the time, but you could easily find the average.

SheepStar

[salvasol]

Sheep wrote:

I would use a test tone. Find out what rating on the volume control is 85dB and use that. It would be impossible to calibrate it with a source that varied in volumes as much as a movie. Ultimately you can't have it at 85dB all the time, but you could easily find the average.SheepStar

I think we already did this, Right??? ... (When we calibrated the system, using the autocalibration, internal test tones or DVE/AVIA disc)

...Are you guys quoting the figure on your volume dials? These are not exactly compareble are they? -15dB one one system could result in the same room spl as -9db on another

You're right!!! ... every room is different ... I was just trying to make a joke to the Prof. about the volume he uses ...

[Prof.]

I find this figure of 85dB. quite incredible, considering that we've set our fronts to 75dB. with the volume set at 00 to obtain that SPL reading...

Even at that level, if you played a DVD it would be ear shattering, little alone playing it another 10dB. higher...

Am I missing something!!.?

[Sheep]

salvasol wrote:

I think we already did this, Right??? ... (When we calibrated the system, using the autocalibration, internal test tones or DVE/AVIA disc)

Yes, but what volume was the receiver at when you calibrated? Using that volume will give you 85dB average (using a test tone).

SheepStar

[no. 5]

Prof. wrote:

I find this figure of 85dB. quite incredible, considering that we've set our fronts to 75dB. with the volume set at 00 to obtain that SPL reading...

Even at that level, if you played a DVD it would be ear shattering, little alone playing it another 10dB. higher...

Am I missing something!!.?

Well, 85dB is the reference level for calibration production studios and theaters; the full range channels are all calibrated so that a -20dBFS input will result in 85dB of sound pressure, if memory serves, the test tones on AVAI and DVE are at -30dBFS.

[salvasol]

Sheep wrote:

Yes, but what volume was the receiver at when you calibrated? Using that volume will give you 85dB average (using a test tone). SheepStar

When I did the autocalibration (Yamaha RXV-2700) the volume was set at "00" ... then I manually checked with RS meter with the receiver internal test tones and SPL was 75

I used DVE ... to get 75db the master volume was @ -5db ... I think because I used DTS on the DVE DVD

[tonyvdb]

Just to clarify Reference level is still 75db but THX recommends 85db with peaks of 105db and 115db from the LFE channel with the receivers volume level at 0db.
Pink noise is the only true test tone that you can use to manually set reference level. with the exception of Avia most audio and DVD setup disks, the pink noise is set for 75db (Avia is set for 85db) Reference level is the db level that is at your listening position with all speakers running so in a large room with your listening position just behind the center of the room this will seem louder if you are close to the speakers.

Reference level is not as easy to achieve as you might think, most center channels for example can not maintain the peaks of 105db particularly if your sitting 12ft away as the farther you sit from the speakers the more db's you need to get out of that speaker to reach your ears at 85db. For example a speaker with a sensitivity of 90db will need 250watts to give you an SPL of 105db at your listening position if your sitting 12ft away. Can your speaker handle that?
So the bottom line here is that reference level is not easy to achieve and in most situations will cause distortion at the peak levels stated above unless your system is fairly beefy.

[Sheep]

Yeah but... 105dB will cause hearing damage after prolonged exposure. The average is 85dB, not 105dB.

[drf]

tonyvdb wrote:

Just to clarify Reference level is still 75db but THX recommends 85db with peaks of 105db and 115db from the LFE channel with the receivers volume level at 0db.
Pink noise is the only true test tone that you can use to manually set reference level. with the exception of Avia most audio and DVD setup disks, the pink noise is set for 75db (Avia is set for 85db) Reference level is the db level that is at your listening position with all speakers running so in a large room with your listening position just behind the center of the room this will seem louder if you are close to the speakers.

Reference level is not as easy to achieve as you might think, most center channels for example can not maintain the peaks of 105db particularly if your sitting 12ft away as the farther you sit from the speakers the more db's you need to get out of that speaker to reach your ears at 85db. For example a speaker with a sensitivity of 90db will need 250watts to give you an SPL of 105db at your listening position if your sitting 12ft away. Can your speaker handle that?
So the bottom line here is that reference level is not easy to achieve and in most situations will cause distortion at the peak levels stated above unless your system is fairly beefy.

how did you calculate that? using this calculator I got 101.7dB at the listening position using 2 speakers with a sensitivity of 90dB and a 50w amp.

Most amps that can supply enough power to maintain 85dB average will easily handle peaks at 105dB.

[atledreier]

So what would I need to calibrate to when running one speaker at a time?

I'm running a pink noise signal from one speaker at a time. What should I see on the RS meter (assuming no peaks here) when running that noise? I have no means of running all channel pink noise to calibrate to 85dB.

[tonyvdb]

Sheep wrote:

Yeah but... 105dB will cause hearing damage after prolonged exposure. The average is 85dB, not 105dB.

If you read my entire post I said peaks of 105db.