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New Projector, New Screen Needed

5K views 29 replies 6 participants last post by  mayhem13 
#1 ·
Well finally put the very old Sony CRT projector to rest along with the ancient Da-Lite screen. Thanx to BestBuy, replaced it with a brand new Mitsu HC1500. Current setup is a 50" 1080p Plasma that i'm currently making a lift for. When the Plasma is down, i hope to project a 100" diag image from the Pj ceiling mounted and a throw of 13ft and viewing distance about the same. 8ft ceilings off white and the screen wall is currently a dark burnt rust color as well as the viewing wall. Mostly using for nightime and ambient light won't be a problem-just some minor leakage from a window. I think the Black Widow screen is the right choice in this case sprayed on to a piece of 1/8 hardboard framed and mounted to the wall. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Oh by the way the carpeting is light in color but i'm thinking to add a dark area rug in front of the screen area to minimize reflections.
 
#2 ·
While I originally thought your pj was similar to my HC3000U, it's not. It's a bit brighter. At your specs you'll be hitting the screen with 25fl. :sn: That will be extremely bright and will definitely require a darker gray screen such as Black Widow. Out side of that you'd need to look at neutral dark gray paints.

You'd do fine with BW! And if I recall correctly about the HC1500, BW will help the blacks! :T

FYI - my screen size is the same as yours and my HC3000U hits the screen with about 14fL.
 
#4 ·
Go with the BW AAA 4:1, it will tame the brightness while retaining a vivid image, especially with a bright projector like you have. I have a 2000 lumen projector and a darker gray works perfect even with lights out viewing.

White is recommended for dedicated lights out theaters, but also keep in mind that's with a 1.0 gain white screen and 12fL of brightness. When you get much over that amount of light the image can actually be too bright for lights out viewing and cause eye strain and even headaches with prolonged viewing. For some people even one movie is enough to bring on eye strain.

To combat that you can lower the brightness setting, or have a touch darker screen. They both have their pros and cons, but Black Widow also performs much lighter than other screens the same shade of gray, so you can feel comfortable that you won't be making a big sacrifice in brightness and whites.
 
#9 ·
Well we've talked about finish but haven't touched a substrate. I've been doing some research and i think unprimed artists heavy canvas properly stretched over a wooden frame is the way i'll go. First off, artists state that the canvas shrinks when drying further tightening the screen-thats plus one. Second some DIYers have reported that the fine texture left behing after the final finish helps to diffuse the reflected light resulting in far less irregularities and hot spotting. Third and probobly the biggest plus is the fine texture allows for zero roller marks and when sprayed-WOW-super even. I'm gonna buy a pre-stretched small frame and give it a try first which brings up another point. I have the feeling htat the slight texture that remains after painting may allow for a higher reflective screen paint mix since the reflected light will be diffused evenly across the screen surface. Would someone be willing to run some tests on the finished panel if i ship it to them ?
 
#10 ·
What type of tests do you have in mind? I would be happy to do a Spectral Reflectance Curve chart for you, and, while I can't speak for him, mech probably wouldn't mind either and he has newer tech equipment.

To be honest, I haven't sprayed anything other than regular tempered hardboard and one sheet of Thrifty White Hardboard (a white coated hardboard); but my understanding is that the smoother the surface to be painted is the better when doing a reflective mix such as BW.
 
#11 ·
Mayhem i have the hc1500 and i painted a Black Widow screen and it came out perfect and also helped the blacks. Because our projectors are so bright i still have to use low lamp mode while watching movies in the dark with BW because in standard mode it just seems to bright. So don't worry about a darker grey screen.

These things are light cannons.
 
#12 ·
Thanx blitz-personal experience goes a long way towards credibility in my book. Purchased my canvas yesterday from pearl paint-looks like nice stuff-smoother than i expected. Bought 60 inches wide by 4 yards for $22 and the aaa fine four ounces for $5.70
 
#13 · (Edited)
hey mayhem if your going to do the BW mix you need 2 4oz. bottles of the AAA fine. And 1 quart of the Bermuda Beige PPG with your post above it sounds like you only got 1 4oz. bottle. You'll like the outcome. It's really nice because i can turn my recessed lighting up 50% without that much Picture Quality loss. This mix does wonders for ambient light. I really didn't want to watch sporting events in the Dark so this is great, now i can turn the lights on a bit and still get a great picture.

Enjoy!
 
#15 ·
I may be misreading what you intend to do, but if you are thinking about adding pearlized white to a Black Widow mix I would seriously advice against it. The reason being that any paint I have ever seen that has "pearl" or "pearlized" in it's name contains a large amount of mica which refracts light instead of reflecting it as aluminum does. Adding mica to a BW mix goes against almost all that Black Widow is designed to do. Also, all the pearls I have measured are far from neutral in color so adding this type of paint to a BW mix will throw off the color neutrality of the paint - in other words, it won't really be a Black Widow mix any more.

If your idea is to lighten the color of the BW mix, I would recommend simply adding a bright white paint in the same amounts you were thinking about adding the pearl. The end result would be even lighter in color (if the same amount was added) and also more neutral since pearls are quite "warm" in color, looking yellowish compared to a bright white. Just my $0.02.
 
#16 ·
Thanx Harp-i bought a couple of 36" square ready made canvases on managers special to toy around with. $20 well spent. Gonna try 3:1,4:1 and 5:1 on these 50/50 on each panel and for the last do 3:1:1 with the pearl to see what happens-just experimenting. Will ship you the one that looks best for some tests. Should get around to painting this weekend.

Another thought. Pearl also had another type of canvas that has a fairly open weave that may be used in a dual layer screen. Do you think there might be an advantage to a dense highly reflective base layer and a more diffuse lighter outer layer-painted sperately of course and then stretched on top of each other? Or would the reverse be better with the lighter base color behind?
 
#17 ·
Experimentation is key to the growth of DIY screens. I certainly don't mean to stifle your inventive process by gainsaying the use of pearl finishes; just that they don't belong in a BW mix for the reasons stated. I also misspoke in my last post, obviously mica reflects in a similar way to aluminum, but mica also refracts (breaks up white light into rainbows), which aluminum doesn't do.

I'll be happy to measure a screen sample for you. Just PM me for my address when you're ready.:T
 
#19 ·
Right Bill; that is what I was trying to say, but stumbled over it. I didn't want to give the impression that mica only refracts. Just as a glass prism, mica both reflects and refracts since it is a transparent substance. Aluminum can only reflect since it is opaque.

Something you have pointed out before, but many still don't know, is that most mica-based paints are designed to refract more than reflect. They are actually coated with microscopically thin layers of metallic compounds (usually oxides) to form specific colors. The "white" paints have mica that is coated to refract all colors just like a prism.

I have tried to find a true "white" mica-based paint, but they have all been a yellowish color. I believe this is due to the color of the actual mica flakes.
 
#20 ·
HELP!!!! Wife wants a Pulldown screen-what do i do now?
she's probobly right on this guys, i already have a 50" plasma on the wall and i wanted to build an automatic lift to lower it out of the way but seems like a lotta trouble-the sensible thing would be a simple pull down-can i paint a pull down or do i have to go for the big bucks and buy a silverscreen?
 
#21 ·
Actually this route is a lot easier sounding than a hide-away plasma mechanism.

Interesting timing on this question, Sound and Vision talked about this exact thing. I have also known others that have down this too.

You'll definitely want a tab-tensioned screen that's for sure. Non tab-tensioned screens always end up developing waves in them. I do know of one person that painted an inexpensive electric retractable screen and they say it reduced/eliminated any wave issues because the paint added weight to the screen and made it a bit thicker.

Long term though I am unsure how it will hold up. I know he's had a painted retractable screen for a year now, but over time paint does become brittle and my fear is after a couple of years it will start to crack and peel from the constant rolling and unrolling. As I mentioned, right now the reports of painting a retractable screen are positive, but it's even further down the road that concerns me.

A plain jane electric retractable screen is rather inexpensive now days, so I guess the mind set could be looked at that say three or five years down the road if it does end up developing problems you won't have a lot of money in it and can just replace the screen, but that can be a pain too.

A nice molding valance can hide the retractable screen and most people would not even know you have one until you drop it down over the plasma. Depending on how you have your speakers now, you may need to relocate them so the screen doesn't cover the speakers when it is down. That or you'll need an AT screen, and that will up the price a bit.

All in all it is definitely do able though.

What will really be interesting is S&V says a dual setup like this is "easy it is to assemble a terrific dual-display system for well under $10,000", and I say it can be done for under half that. They state that an entry level 720p projector is around $2grand, and that's about double what a good 720p projector can be purchased for. They also say flat panel sets bigger than 52" can exceed $8,000, which is true, but there are also sets $2,000 and under that perform very well... so their price list is a bit high in my opinion.

I have a dual display setup but I went with a fixed frame screen that sits above my 55" SXRD. I had to build a custom stand to lower the HDTV some so it didn't extend into the projector screen area. I also have the luxury of having 9' ceilings. Even though I opted for a fixed frame, my dual display setup comes in at around $3,300, so it can be done well under the $10K mark S&V talks about.
 
#23 ·
If you have the equipment, I would spray the retractable screen instead of rolling it.

What to use as a base could be tough. If the screen will be taken up and down a lot (and I assume such would be the case for your app.), I would use an exterior paint since it is designed to take more "movement" than interior paints. I understand that such paints can contain many chemicals that we don't want in our homes, but...

The other option is to use a paint medium designed to be applied to fabric. I believe FolkArt makes one (I might even have a few ounces of it somewhere). I'll look into this approach; it would be good to have a retractable version of Black Widow too.:T
 
#28 ·
Wow, I didn't know retractables could be so inexpensive! After I went to a few of the on-line sellers, I think I can buy a small manual screen (7-8 foot 4:3) cheaper than I could make one (under $100 with shipping)!

When you get your screen I would really like to know what type of material it is made of. Most, but not all, of the mediums and paints that are designed for use on fabric need to be "heat set" for permanence (similar to applying an iron-on transfer).

I might try to contact the company and see if I can get a screen sample.
 
#29 ·
Most of the screen material I've had access to is either vinyl or a type of fiberglass material. I'm unsure whether you could heat set a vinyl screen! I wouldn't! :yikes: I don't see why you couldn't with a fiberglass screen though.
 
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