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post #51 of 148 Old 08-07-07, 09:47 PM Thread Starter
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Jim
 
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Re: Best screen for me

Quote:
tiddler wrote: View Post
From what I have seen the final result will be similar if you use a base layer of UPW #1050 or UPW #1850. On their own the 1850 will be brighter but the poly will boost the gain on the 1050 more. If your intent is to to top coat with poly alone or the pearl clear coat then there is nothing gained by using the 1850 for the base layer.

If you were going to go with just a one-can paint then the 1850 is a better choice then the 1050. Once top coated though, it is difficult to even tell them apart.
Interesting, thanks. That saves me a trip back to the depot.

One of the reasons that I'm thinking of topcoating (in addition to a bit of gain boost) is that I have two grubby kids (11 and 9), and I know that the white wall just won't stay white unless I can wipe it off. My assumption is that I will be able to wipe off the poly???

Also, do you know what the gain goes to with white paint and a poly topcoat? It seems like I read that it was 1.2-1.3, but I can't find it....
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post #52 of 148 Old 08-07-07, 11:12 PM
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Re: Best screen for me

The gain will be around 1.3 with poly over UPW #1050. It will be a much more durable surface than the white paint and quite washable once the poly has fully cured.

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post #53 of 148 Old 08-08-07, 12:31 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Best screen for me

Quote:
tiddler wrote: View Post
From what I have seen the final result will be similar if you use a base layer of UPW #1050 or UPW #1850. On their own the 1850 will be brighter but the poly will boost the gain on the 1050 more. If your intent is to to top coat with poly alone or the pearl clear coat then there is nothing gained by using the 1850 for the base layer.

If you were going to go with just a one-can paint then the 1850 is a better choice then the 1050. Once top coated though, it is difficult to even tell them apart.
Thanks, Todd. A few more questions for you...

(1) Have you ever just put a clear coat on the Kilz2? If so, what were the results?

(2) Asuming I paint it (cause you tell me that topcoating the Kilz is a bad idea), how many coats of 1050 should I use?

(3) How long between coats of paint, between paint and clearcoat, and between coats of clearcoat?

(4) Should I try one coat of clearcoat first, or do you choose to do two as a minimum for the sake of uniformity?

Thanks again for all of your help!

PS You didn't warn me that the Kilz2 has the consistency of sludge!! I had no idea it was so thick...didn't create any difficulties (other than not draining back into the can through the nail holes that I put around the top rim), just surprised me.
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post #54 of 148 Old 08-08-07, 12:35 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Best screen for me

A brief update for anyone following my journey that may be curious...I ended up building a "floating shelf" on the wall opposite the screen to hold the projector. That has helped tremendously with the vibrations coming from the floor above when the projector was ceiling mounted.
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post #55 of 148 Old 08-08-07, 08:13 AM
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Re: Best screen for me

Quote:
cynical2 wrote: View Post
Thanks, Todd. A few more questions for you...

(1) Have you ever just put a clear coat on the Kilz2? If so, what were the results?
No, actually I have not been able to find the Kilz2 here in Ottawa.

(2) Asuming I paint it (cause you tell me that topcoating the Kilz is a bad idea), how many coats of 1050 should I use?
If you do paint then I would apply two coats to get complete coverage.

(3) How long between coats of paint, between paint and clearcoat, and between coats of clearcoat?
The paint should be completely dry. Two to three hours depending on the temperature and humidity. I like to wait over night before applying the polyurethane.

(4) Should I try one coat of clearcoat first, or do you choose to do two as a minimum for the sake of uniformity?
If you think you may add a Pearl Clear Coat then I would only apply one coat. If you only plan to use the poly then apply two coats.

Thanks again for all of your help!

PS You didn't warn me that the Kilz2 has the consistency of sludge!! I had no idea it was so thick...didn't create any difficulties (other than not draining back into the can through the nail holes that I put around the top rim), just surprised me.
Ya some paints are quite thick. You can add some water and then apply more coats. The result is a smoother surface with less roller texture.

The UPW is quite thick too. I found it rolls on smoothly and levels out nicely.

I gather you have decided to go with a white screen then?

Have you considered using the Pearl Clear Coat?

If you like the brightness of the white but want a bit of ambient light tolerance you could go medium-light gray with the Pearl Clear Coat. I will try to get some photos of 0 3 0 LB + 0 1 0 YO with a Pearl Clear Coat posted. I will be comparing that to a matte white and a matte white with poly top coat.
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post #56 of 148 Old 08-08-07, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Best screen for me

Thanks, Todd. To be honest, I'm not sure what the best path forward is for me (white vs grey, pearl vs no pearl). I'm willing to do whatever would give the best overall viewibg performance.

Right now I have 2 large fluorescent (2' x 4', 4 bulbs each) in the room. I disconnected the wiring from the one closest to the screen because it completely washed out the image with the lights on. With only the back fizture lighting up, the image is still somewhat washed out, but "watchable" if I run the projector in high lumen (dynamic) output mode. The fixture that is currently operable happens to be located just in front of the projector, so the projector beam shoots through the fixture light when lights are on. My longer term plan is to also disable that fixture, and mount a couple of sconces on the back wall (where the projector is mounted). I may also put one sconce each on the rear portion of the two side walls.

So, that's the current ambient light situation. With lights fully out, the image looks pretty good, imho. Though, please keep in mind, I have NO BASELINE with which to compare. This is my first FP and first screen, so I don't know (1) if it can/should look better, or (2) how much better it can/should look.

Of course, without you seeing it first hand, I know that you also don't have as muxh data as would be helpful while making a reco. That being said, I'd love to know your "best guess" of what I should do given the data that you do have. As I mentioned, I'm more than happy to go grey and include pearl, silver, or anything else if you think it makes sense to do so. Of course, if switching from 1050 to 1850 is also no problem.

Is there any specific data I can provide (about what I'm seeing) that would be helpful?

My goal is to provide an image that will blow people away while being as simple as possible to apply (i.e. rolled, not sprayed)...so it still feels like a tiddler solution to me (question is...which one?). Thanks in advance for the help!

Last edited by cynical2; 08-08-07 at 02:30 PM.
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post #57 of 148 Old 08-08-07, 06:25 PM
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Re: Best screen for me

Let review the really significant facts about your setup.

You have a drop ceiling with tiles that are hard to find. You could replace a row or two of the tile near the screen with felt covered Styrofoam or some other suitable material.

The walls are a beige color. They could be painted a darker color. Anything darker than what they are will help. It is also best to use an eggshell or flatter finish on the walls. Anything you can do to minimize the reflected light from the walls will improve the image.

There are two 2'x4' Flourescent fixture, probably with a wall switch. I would leave these as is for use to fully light the room when not using the projector. The drop ceiling offers you the best possibility for theater lighting. It would be easy to install ceiling cans that direct the light down onto the exact location where you want it. The problem with the sconces is that they are likely to throw light on the screen surface. This is not desirable as it will wash out the image. The drop ceiling will allow you to install the ceiling cans easily and run wiring to them. I would suggest a remote control dimmer for the cans.

The fact is you have a lot of possibilities to setup the ideal lighting for a theater room. The drop ceiling makes that possible. The other thing working in your favor is the Pany 100. This quote from Projector Central's review says it all:
Quote:
The range of lumen output on the AX100U is exceptional. In optimized dark theater mode, our test unit measured 343 ANSI lumens. But in Vivid Cinema mode, which still retains exceptional color and contrast, brightness was boosted to over 800 lumens. And in Dynamic mode we were able to get over 1400 lumens without too much compromise in image quality. This would be ideal for a Super Bowl party where brightness in ambient light is all important, and small variances from color standards are not noticed by anyone.
The bottom line is you have lumens to spare. Your projector is very similar to my HD72 for dark theater viewing at 343 lumens. The 800 lumens in Vivid Cinema mode should allow you to use a gray screen as dark as mine for ambient light movie viewing. The 1400 lumens for game night should allow for even more ambient light to ensure there is no inadvertent hand holding by your buddies when reaching for their beers. I suspect there are more than a few of us quite envious of your projector's specs and your room possibilities.

Here are my recommendations:
  1. Install ceiling cans instead of sconces.
  2. Darken the walls and ceiling as suggested above.
  3. Ensure your screen wall is nice and smooth, sanding and priming if necessary.
  4. Get the UPW #1050 tinted one of the shades of gray listed bellow.
  5. Use a Pearl Clear Coat as per the instruction bellow.
  6. Post some photos of your theater and screen shots.
  7. Tell all your friends about the Home Thetaer Shack.

Here are tints near my own screen shade to consider:

Lighter than Tiddler's screen:
================
EasyFlex-05 Custom Tint
Quart Behr UPW Flat Latex #1050
0 5 0 Lamp Black
0 2 0 Yellow Oxide
================
Similar to Tiddler's screen:
================
EasyFlex-07 Custom Tint
Quart Behr UPW Flat Latex #1050
0 7 1 Lamp Black
0 3 0 Yellow Oxide
================
Darker than Tiddler's screen:
================
EasyFlex-10 Custom Tint
Quart Behr UPW Flat Latex #1050
0 10 0 Lamp Black
0 05 0 Yellow Oxide
================
NOTE: With the Pearl Clear Coat the EasyFlex-10 will actually perform like a screen lighter in shade than my own. Assuming you would be happy with the image I am producing on my EasyFlex-06 with poly top coat, then you would really like the results you would get with the EasyFlex-10 + Pearl Clear Coat.


Pearl Clear Coat

For a screen 120" in size, I found that there is usually something just shy of a 1/4 quart of polyurethane remaining after two coats. I suspect you will have just enough for two coats on your 143" screen.

Here in Ottawa I found the Folkart Pearlizing Medium at Wal-Mart. Michaels seemed to only carry the Decoart Pearlizing Medium. I do NOT recommend you substitute. Look for the Folkart Pearlizing Medium at Wal-Mart and Michaels. You only need one 2oz. bottle to add to a quart of Behr Clear Matte Polyurethane.

A 1 or 2oz. syringe is very useful. You should be able to get this from a vet's office. Ask for one with a catheter tip. This is just a plastic tip like a glue bottle. The Pearlizing Medium is quite thick. Squeeze as much of it as you can out of the bottle into a 2 litre plastic ice cream container. Using the syringe fill the bottle half full with poly and shake. Pour the poly out of the bottle into the container. Do this several times to get as much of the pearlizing medium out of the bottle.

Stir the poly in the can really well with a drill attachment. You want to get all the flattening agent that settles to the bottom of the can stirred in. Then dump the poly into the ice cream container and mix it all really well.

Use a new low nap roller to apply the Pearl Clear Coat. For a screen the height of yours it will take a full load on the roller to cover one roller width top to bottom. Blend the vertical strips in the same way as you did with the the paint. I am assuming you used the Basic Roller Painting Instructions to apply the Kilz2.

Let the paint dry for at least 10 hours before applying the Pearl Clear Coat.

With the Pearl Clear Coat there is one addition step in the application. It should be down rolled. This means very lightly rolling down the height of the screen starting half a roller past where you blended back to. This aligns the mica flakes so the roller tracks are uniform. Just think about vacuuming the carpet. You can see where the vacuum went forward and where it went backward. It is the same thing with the pearl clear coat. Take a look at these video clips to see what I mean.



[I]NOTE: In the video I made one minor error when down rolling. Notice the end of the roller the handle is attached to. The pressure on the handle end is actually slightly higher than the free end of the roller. I should have been rolling with the roller flipped over so the free end was the last part of the roller to down roll the screen. I was also not getting enough polyurethane on the screen and ended up redoing the base coat and top coat to fix the streaks. So remember load as much Pearl Clear Coat on the roller as it will hold. Always trail with the free end of the roller when down rolling.

Also remember to stir the clear coat well before drawing any from the container.

Wrap the roller in a clean plastic bag between coats. It takes several ounces of poly just to get the roller wet. Starting the second coat with a fresh roller could mean you won't have enough to cover the 143" screen.


If you are in doubt then get some 2'x4' 1/8" white hardboard samples from Home Depot and make up a sample or two to see for yourself and to get some practice.

Last edited by Tiddler; 08-09-07 at 09:17 AM.
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post #58 of 148 Old 08-09-07, 05:33 AM Thread Starter
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Jim
 
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Re: Best screen for me

Quote:
tiddler wrote: View Post
Here are my recommendations:
  1. Install ceiling cans instead of sconces.
  2. Darken the walls and ceiling as suggested above.
  3. Ensure your screen wall is nice and smooth, sanding and priming if necessary.
  4. Get the UPW #1050 tinted one of the shades of gray listed bellow.
  5. Use a Pearl Clear Coat as per the instruction bellow.
  6. Post some photos of your theater and screen shots.
  7. Tell all your friends about the Home Thetaer Shack.
Jim ---> <--- Todd

I can and will implement all of the above. Sounds like I have a busy few days ahead of me.

Awesome info, Todd...I can't thank you enough for all of your help! Pls keep your eyes open in case I have questions along the way...
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post #59 of 148 Old 08-10-07, 01:01 AM Thread Starter
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Jim
 
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Sorry Todd....

Quote:
tiddler wrote: View Post
Here are tints near my own screen shade to consider:

Lighter than Tiddler's screen:
================
EasyFlex-05 Custom Tint
Quart Behr UPW Flat Latex #1050
0 5 0 Lamp Black
0 2 0 Yellow Oxide
================
Similar to Tiddler's screen:
================
EasyFlex-07 Custom Tint
Quart Behr UPW Flat Latex #1050
0 7 1 Lamp Black
0 3 0 Yellow Oxide
================
Darker than Tiddler's screen:
================
EasyFlex-10 Custom Tint
Quart Behr UPW Flat Latex #1050
0 10 0 Lamp Black
0 05 0 Yellow Oxide
================

Well, Todd, after all of your work helping me, I decided not to take your advice after all.






Instead, I went with EasyFlex-08

I took my gallon of 1050 and split it in half, putting 1/2 gallon into a new, empty paint can. Then, I went back to HD and had them tint it to EF-08.

I figured that would be a happy median, given that ambient light will be completely self-produced through lighting rather than from the sun. So, it should be low-moderate levels, and will be set up so it's not on the screen. Based on today's additions to the Pearl thread, it looks like even a very light grey will help alot over just white. So, I feel pretty comfortable with the choice. I figure, based on your posts, that after the topcoat is applied, I'll end up with a darkness equivalent to around EF-04.

A couple of other things...

(1) Can you (and any others that would like to input) take a look a this sketch of my room, and tell me what you think about up-lighting sconces in the locations on the sketch. I know you recommended can lighting due to concerns over washing out the screen, but would it really be an issue at these locations, with the light projecting upward? If it is, I can do can lights instead...but I prefer the look and softer lighting of sconces if it doesn't cause issues with the image. The bottom line is that I'm looking for opinions on the lighting again, now that I've shared more data by way the room sketch. If your opinion hasn't changed, doing cans is what I'll do.



(2) Thought you may want to see your idea on trim that holds rope lighting starting to come to fruition. I made a short sample template (of about a foot long today). It's one-piece, made from a 2x4. Here's a pic:



(3) If anyone knows where to get the FolkArt pearlizing medium in the states, please share. I've been to 3 Wal-marts (plenty of Folkart supplies, but not that one), 2 Michaels (same story), JoAnns, Meijer's, and Hobby Lobby with no luck. I also probably called at least 20 other arts/crafts/hobby stores in the area. I'm planning on placing an order for it online tonite, but it may help other folks later on.
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post #60 of 148 Old 08-10-07, 03:34 AM
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Re: Best screen for me

Are the shades on the sconces opaque?

You may get away with it if they only shine up. If possible you may want to be able to control the front two separate from the rear two.
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