Rear Projection LCD & Motion Blur?

**singitloud** · **06-25-09, 04:15 PM**

I was thinking about replacing my 60" rear projection LCD (SONY 60XS955) with a wall-mounted flat panel because I am now in a smaller room, etc.

Anyway, There is all this talk and DEMO-ing of 60Hz vs. 120Hz vs. 240Hz and then response times etc...

The difference is definitely noticeable at the store - mainly on scrolling text, but when I went home I didn't really notice it like I did at the store. My picture looks incredible (always has).

So, I look at the spec.s on the TV (my SONY) and I don't see anything about response time or ##Hz anywhere. I also didn't see any contrast ratio numbers.

Do the rear projection LCDs like ours not have a big of an issue with this?

I was thinking I would be upgrading technology, but I'm not so sure anymore.

Anyone know?

Thanks.

Dwaine

**singitloud** · **06-25-09, 04:32 PM**

By the way...

I am attaching a diagram of my Family Room.

I am currently sitting about 8.5' from my 60" TV.

If I bought a 52" and hung it on the wall I would be about 10' from the 52" TV.

My kids hate the idea of selling the TV (they like playing their PS3 games on it, as do I), but it really is almost too close...

Your thoughts (on this and especially the original post)?

Dwaine

**tonyvdb** · **06-25-09, 04:45 PM**

Hi Dwaine, Welcome to the Shack.

Your Sony is capable of displaying up to 1080i at 60Hz you will not see an image if you try to display the newer 1080p 120 or 240Hz images from BluRay DVD's as the Sony will not accept them. Some people like the higher refresh rates however many have reviewed them and said that they look artificial and dont always look as good.

**singitloud** · **06-25-09, 05:18 PM**

I do understand the 1080i limitation. However, I have yet to not be able to watch a BluRay on my PS3.

I have heard the same thing about the higher refresh rates looking artificial.

Do you know what the contrast ration is on my TV? I can't find it anywhere?

Also, a customer service rep. from Crutchfield said the LCD rear projections don't have a problem with motion blur.

Mainly I am just worried that if I buy the Samsung LN52B520 and bring it home, I will be disappointed.

**singitloud** · **06-25-09, 05:45 PM**

Okay, I have been searching and searching for some contrast ratio info. for my 60XS955 and finally found something. I had been searching for ##Hz info. but tonyvdb answered that one for me.

I found on a forum that a guy put a calibration "thing-a-ma-jiggy" on the tv and it was around 900:1.

WOW!

I can only imagine how much better the LN52B530 would look. It's contrast ratio is 60,000:1 with a 6ms response time.

I'm still concerned about motion blur - but only if it is going to be worse than my SONY, because I don't notice it on my SONY.

Dwaine

**tonyvdb** · **06-25-09, 05:55 PM**

I dont think it would be any worse than what you have now so if your really serious about it then I would not be concerned about getting it.

**bobgpsr** · **06-26-09, 01:48 PM**

Quote:

tonyvdb wrote:

... you will not see an image if you try to display the newer 1080p 120 or 240Hz images from BluRay DVD's as the Sony will not accept them...

If a display is connected to a player using component video -- then the player will set its output to 1080i. If connected via HDMI or DVI then the player reads the display's EDID capabilities and will send a display compatable video format.

A 60 Hz (or 30Hz interlaced) display will be able to display all Blu-ray's.

Just can not take advantage of the video judder reduction from using an exact multiple of 23.976 fps (vertical refresh 48, 72, 96, 120, 240 etc) which film based titles use. Instead the bad old 3:2 pull up is used, as it has been used since broadcast TV first showed movies.

**tonyvdb** · **06-26-09, 03:33 PM**

But the SONY 60XS955's maximum resolution is 1080i, even through HDMI it wont accept anything more. To take advantage of the 120 or 240Hz refresh rates would it not have to be able to accept 1080p?

**SteveCallas** · **06-27-09, 12:31 PM**

Quote:

singitloud wrote:

So, I look at the spec.s on the TV (my SONY) and I don't see anything about response time or ##Hz anywhere. I also didn't see any contrast ratio numbers.

It would be a 60hz display. If this display is from 2004, I'd imagine response time of the LCD is around 12ms.

Quote:

I found on a forum that a guy put a calibration "thing-a-ma-jiggy" on the tv and it was around 900:1.

WOW!

I can only imagine how much better the LN52B530 would look. It's contrast ratio is 60,000:1 with a 6ms response time.

A contrast ratio of 900:1 does leave room for improvement, but that's not the same measurement as the 60,000:1 claim. The 60,000:1 claim is dynamic contrast ratio, meaning the difference between a full black screen and a full white screen. The 900:1 is measuring a black square next to a white square on the screen at the same time. Nowadays a good Samsung LCD can do about 3000:1.

Quote:

Some people like the higher refresh rates however many have reviewed them and said that they look artificial and dont always look as good.

Quote:

I have heard the same thing about the higher refresh rates looking artificial.

Two different things. What can make the image look artificial is frame interpolation - the display "guesses" what the image should look like inbetween frames. This results in "soap opera effect", or almost too realistic movement. Some people like it, some don't.

A higher refresh rate and frame interpolation do not go hand in hand though. On current top model Samsungs you can independtly adjust blur reduction and judder reduction - judder reduction causes the soap opera effect, but blur reduction does just that - reduces blur.

Quote:

I am currently sitting about 8.5' from my 60" TV.

If I bought a 52" and hung it on the wall I would be about 10' from the 52" TV.

My kids hate the idea of selling the TV (they like playing their PS3 games on it, as do I), but it really is almost too close...

No way. Ideally you should only be sitting 7.5' from a 60" display to fall between THX and SMPTE standards. With a 52" display you should be sitting 6.5' away.

**SteveCallas** · **06-27-09, 12:36 PM**

Quote:

tonyvdb wrote:

To take advantage of the 120 or 240Hz refresh rates would it not have to be able to accept 1080p?

No. No home video source is 120hz or 240hz, those are just the frequencies at which the display refreshes the frames on screen. Feed a 240hz set a standard 30fps signal and it will refresh each frame 8x. Feed it a 24fps signal and it will refresh it 10x.

**akan101** · **11-02-09, 02:32 AM**

Quote:

tonyvdb wrote:

Hi Dwaine, Welcome to the Shack.

Your Sony is capable of displaying up to 1080i at 60Hz you will not see an image if you try to display the newer 1080p 120 or 240Hz images from BluRay DVD's as the Sony will not accept them. Some people like the higher refresh rates however many have reviewed them and said that they look artificial and dont always look as good.

I totally agree with you. The picture is sometimes so clear that you can see the effects of green screen.

**singitloud** · **11-02-09, 07:43 AM**

I'm keepin the SONY.

Still a great TV and I don't want to spend the $$ on a new one that is smaller.

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