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Old 10-03-11, 07:43 PM   #21
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Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?


I have a 52" and sit 12 ft. away and think the picture is perfect. I'd love to jump up to 60 or 70 inches but i'll save that for my dedicated room when the time and money come.


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Old 10-03-11, 08:40 PM   #22
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Quote:
Osage_Winter wrote:

Thanks Mojo; appreciate the input.

So you would feel by staying at the same distance for us -- which would be 12 feet -- the 10 inch jump to a 60" would be significant? Do you think film watching -- particularly scope presentations at 2.35:1 and 2.40:1 with heavy letterboxing -- would seem more immersive at 12 feet with a 60 incher?

How far are you from your plasma now? Do you have any pics of your room and setup?
I guess the key here is how much is significant varies by person to person. Do I prefer the larger screen? Oh yes! Can I tell it's a bigger more immersive screen? Yes. So can my wife. Do I feel I can go larger, yes. My wife not so much, but that's because she sits closer to the screen than I do due to our living room layout. She sits 2 feet closer than I do and if we switch seats, it's even more immersive. You should definitely try the sitting 2 feet closer trick mentioned above.

Love watching movies. Prefer no letterboxing as I want to see/use as much as my tv as possible.

I'm 14 feet away, and since it's a living room not a dedicated space, that's not going to change. So, yes from here it's like watching tv, not being in the movie as I can see my L R speakers; c'est la vie!


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Old 10-04-11, 12:04 AM   #23
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Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?


Quote:
KalaniP wrote: View Post
Sharp's biggest LCD HDTVs get even bigger with a new 80-inch model:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/27/s...w-80-inch-mod/
WOW -- I think I want one...

That is gorgeous. A definite consideration for someone like me who doesn't really want to go the front projection route...

Quote:
The 80" Sharp will be $5,499 (MSRP) when it starts shipping in early October. Preorders are already popping up for sub-$5k prices, I've read.
I've already been told by the wife -- after I just showed her the link -- that I can't have one.

Seriously, though, we have been having some money issues, so I understand this concern; but she made it like "you don't need an 80-inch TV..." Ahhhh...the downfalls of married life, huh?

Quote:
BUT, it's not an Elite... this model (LC-80LE632U) is actually an even lower-end panel than their 70" 732 model (the 735 is better, and the Elites are better still).
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang...

So, Sharp went the whole "Elite" route like Pioneer? I wonder if Pio sued them for using the moniker...

Quote:
Flat panel TVs are just plain dead appealing. I WANT one. I LOVE the look of one on a wall. The PQ of a still looks absolutely fantastic (different when things move, more on that below). My wife would be thrilled to get that much more open air in our living room. (You still need a long piece of furniture underneath to hold the components and center channel, but you still get back a decent chunk of air and the room looks more open.)
I, for one, don't care for the flat panel on-the-wall scheme; I see them in every home magazine and on every home decorating show, and I just think it's a passing fad. I don't care for the screen on the wall with the cabinet below it, like you describe, as I just feel like the room is "too empty"...but I totally understand why someone would prefer this, as you guys.

Don't get me wrong -- I don't absolutely hate the screens on the wall, or the low boy cabinets beneath them for the components, etc. I just prefer built-in cabinets or wall units/entertainment centers more. For example, our 50" Sony RPTV sits in a wall unit that is almost the exact cut out size for it, with cabinets to the left and right and a bridge shelf on top that holds our center channel. I've seen installs where big screen RPTVs like the SXRDs are installed flushed into a wall -- take a look at this guy's install on Blu-ray.com; he is running a 70-inch SXRD:

http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gal...member=armcomm

That's how I like my screens to look.

Quote:
can beat CRT in terms of overall PQ, IMO (and that of many others). The best of the Plasmas brag about black levels that are "like CRT". Plasmas have good motion, too, and good color (once calibrated) but they don't have a huge amount of brightness. Burn-in of static images and screen elements CAN be an issue (less with newer models, but it still has to be at least somewhat in your mind) Quite good off-axis viewing. LCD, by comparison, tend to have LOUSY black levels (one exception: the new Sharp Elites), and frankly they SUCK at motion. But they do well in lit environments. Color quality is a mixed bag, some do better than others. Off-axis viewing is often an issue. DLP-based sets can get huge, but they have their own share of issues. Black levels aren't as good as CRT. DLP motion is better than Plasma, but not always perfectly natural-looking. Color management can be an issue. Bulbs have to be replaced regularly.
I was very curious about Mitsubishi's new gigantic screens that are out now -- specifically, the ones in the 70, 80 and even 90-inch arena. They're DLPs, but I don't know what kind of picture quality they display at these insane sizes. I saw them being sold on home shopping networks like HSN and QVC as well, and really wanted to demo one, but I don't know anyone who has one...

A local "Rent a Center" store near us had the 73" Mitsu DLP with 3D support, and connected via HDMI (I asked the clerk) through a PS3, the image didn't look all that bad -- kind of on the soft side, but I expected that from a rear projection model.

What I really like about LCD -- and as I said, I know I am in a major minority here -- are these sets' refresh interpolation features, up to, what, 240Hz now? I simply like the way this feature makes film look a bit more like video (the dreaded-by-many "soap opera effect") on Blu-ray specifically. I can recall seeing two demos -- the first was when I was first shopping for my TV before the SXRD in a Sears, and they were running a Pirates of the Caribbean demo on a Sony LCD screen (Bravia, I think?)..., Johnny Depp looked like he was floating off the screen with that surreal kind of motion. I loved it and was hooked. Later on, I saw a Samsung LCD running The Dark Knight on Blu in a Circuit City before it closed, and they had this "motionflow" feature on (I realize that's a Sony-coined term) and the film looked like it was shot on video with that surreal feeling again. I happen to like that look in moderation, and feel that that's what high def should look like (again -- I know I am in the minority here).

When I got my SXRD set up, I was wondering why I couldn't get that effect like I saw in the stores -- until I learned that my set didn't have the refresh/interpolation features like the LCDs (I tried putting my set on Vivid trying to imitate this effect and everything else you can imagine). So, I'd love to get a really large LCD if I could, but it looks like 60 inches is gonna be our limit...

Quote:
mpeting technology has issues, and each compares itself to CRT as the reference standard. A well-calibrated CRT will have PERFECT color. It will have PERFECT motion. It will have PERFECT black levels. It outputs enough light to do fine in well-lit rooms (reflections can sometimes be an issue, but that can happen with other tech, too).

CRT's, however, are BIG (the cabinets, not just the screen... tho the screen can be found (used, at this point) in 65" easily, and 73" if you get a little lucky). And they top out at 1080i: they can't do 1080p. I can live with big, but it's not appealing. And because they're old, they usually don't have HDMI, mandating Component connections as the best option, and needing special converters to deal with HDMI. Burn-in can be an issue if you're careless. (Although my set is over 10 years old and has no burn-in, tho I do take care to make sure it remains this way.) CRT is not without issues, but as long as you have enough space, by most metrics that matter most to a true videophile, CRT is still king. (possible exceptions to be made for the Plasma Pioneer Elite Kuro sets, but they don't get as big as CRT and are nearly impossible to get... while used CRTs with another decade of life remaining can be had CHEAP on Craigslist.) But it's not appealing... until you turn off the lights and start the show.
Oh, I know about DLP sets being huge -- my folks had a 55" Mitsubishi Diamond Series rear pro that was like a refrigerator in their living room. I have always been told that the newer microdisplay RPTVs like Sony's SXRD were the way to go for huge screens at more affordable prices compared to plasma and LCD.

I wouldn't look for a used TV though.


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Old 10-04-11, 12:06 AM   #24
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Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?


Quote:
KalaniP wrote: View Post
I can tell you this:

I have a buddy with nearly the exact same TV as me (65" RPTV). He sits about 8' from the screen (basically dead on at 1.5x screen size). I sit (sat, actually... new house I'm closer) 11' from the screen.

He wins, from an immersion standpoint, no contest.

I'm enjoying the newer, closer seating position (similar to his... unless I add 2' for a switch to flat screen!), at the moment, and am loathe to give it up.
That makes me

So a 60 probably wouldn't be immersive at our distance...


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Old 10-04-11, 12:08 AM   #25
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Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?


Quote:
eugovector wrote: View Post
I'll try to get one taken. It's a standard wall mount setup, but I'll try to get a pic soon.

The only problem that I had with the 51" was that it didn't have HDMI, was a big as a couch, and weighed 150lbs.
Oh -- it was a CRT?

Immersion = Field of vision for me. Life is widescreen, corner to corner, and that's what I try to reach with the display in my theater.[/quote]

? What do you mean "life is widescreen"?

Quote:
For my 50" set, that's about 6', but that doesn't work with my seating. So, my answer is no, I'm not satisfied with my current setup, but you may be. It's all a matter of opinion.
I see. Well, we're "just making do" with the 50 at our distance (when there's any kind of light reflecting on this display, forget it -- the screen instantly shrinks and I'm taken right out of the film...it's like I'm viewing a 20" portable screen ) and I was hoping that a jump 10 inches would definitely make a visual impression...


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Old 10-04-11, 12:10 AM   #26
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Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?


Quote:
bambino wrote: View Post
I have a 52" and sit 12 ft. away and think the picture is perfect. I'd love to jump up to 60 or 70 inches but i'll save that for my dedicated room when the time and money come.
Thanks Bambino!

At least you make me feel a bit better about my 50"/12 feet situation!

I hear you about the dedicated room for the 60 or 70 -- right now, we'd like to get a 60 into the current space, but as you said, when the money comes...

But does it ever?


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Old 10-04-11, 12:23 AM   #27
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Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?


Quote:
mojojojo wrote: View Post
I guess the key here is how much is significant varies by person to person. Do I prefer the larger screen? Oh yes! Can I tell it's a bigger more immersive screen? Yes. So can my wife. Do I feel I can go larger, yes. My wife not so much, but that's because she sits closer to the screen than I do due to our living room layout. She sits 2 feet closer than I do and if we switch seats, it's even more immersive. You should definitely try the sitting 2 feet closer trick mentioned above.
How big is your set again?

Quote:
Love watching movies. Prefer no letterboxing as I want to see/use as much as my tv as possible.
Oh, I totally get that -- I would love every film to fill my whole screen too. The thing is, ultra wide scope transfers at 2.35:1 and 2.40:1 require the letterboxing in order for the film to be viewed correctly on a 16:9 display (1.85:1 and 1.78:1 I believe can fill a widescreen display with no letterboxing due to some sets' overscan and other elements at play like a close-to-16:9 format; films with transfers of this kind fill my SXRD's display with no letterboxing due to overscan). That's the way the filmmaker wants you to see the film -- the letterboxing allows you to view all the information from left to right in the frame. When you stretch a widescreen transfer like this to fill a screen without letterboxing, you sacrifice not only quality of the image but what the director wants you to see -- again, though, here's the catch: DVD video is "stretchable" to fill a screen when there's letterboxing present in the transfer, but Blu-ray video is not, from everything I have gathered...

For example -- the Star Trek original episodes on Blu are in their original 4:3 format (full screen) and when I watch them on my Oppo Blu-ray player feeding my SXRD display, I get "pillarboxing" to the sides of the image, so the episodes are shown in an appropriate 4:3 format. Pillarboxing is like letterboxing, only it fills the sides of a screen with black area, not the top and bottom -- but from what I can tell with my equipment, 1080p Blu-ray video is "locked" into a widescreen or fullscreen format, unable to be stretched or manipulated unless you make changes to the player's resolution output. In other words, when I try and stretch the Star Trek episodes to fill my 16:9 display with the 4:3 image, I cannot -- the same thing happens when I watch widescreen Blu-ray films shot in 2.40:1 or 2.35:1 formats -- I can't stretch the image to fill the screen without letterboxing...

I'm told that this is a limitation with regard to 1080p high definition material -- that these images cannot be manipulated or stretched. I'd love to fill my screen up every time something comes onscreen -- but then I start thinking "This isn't how the director wanted me to see this frame or scene..." and that perhaps I'm sacrificing picture quality by blowing up the image...

Quote:
I'm 14 feet away, and since it's a living room not a dedicated space, that's not going to change. So, yes from here it's like watching tv, not being in the movie as I can see my L R speakers; c'est la vie!


Attachment 32931
Thank you for sharing the pic with me -- indeed, we have the same situation...it feels like a living room and not a dedicated space, and thus it's simply like watching TV, not cinema...

I know exactly what you mean.


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Old 10-04-11, 04:05 PM   #28
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Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?


Quote:
Osage_Winter wrote: View Post
That makes me

So a 60 probably wouldn't be immersive at our distance...
"Immersive" the way you get when you are 1.5x screen width distance from the screen? No.

More immersive than you have now, with the smaller set? Absolutely.

Quote:
Osage_Winter wrote: View Post
So, Sharp went the whole "Elite" route like Pioneer? I wonder if Pio sued them for using the moniker...
Sharp licensed the Elite moniker from Pioneer, and hired a bunch of their Kuro techs to help them develop this new line. They are direct descendents of the Pio Elite lineage, no doubt. However, IMO, due to some (not yet solved) inherent limitations in LCD tech, they don't quite match the Pio Kuros, although they beat them in size, of course, and a few other measures.

Quote:
Osage_Winter wrote: View Post
I, for one, don't care for the flat panel on-the-wall scheme; I see them in every home magazine and on every home decorating show, and I just think it's a passing fad. I don't care for the screen on the wall with the cabinet below it, like you describe, as I just feel like the room is "too empty"...but I totally understand why someone would prefer this, as you guys.

Don't get me wrong -- I don't absolutely hate the screens on the wall, or the low boy cabinets beneath them for the components, etc. I just prefer built-in cabinets or wall units/entertainment centers more. For example, our 50" Sony RPTV sits in a wall unit that is almost the exact cut out size for it, with cabinets to the left and right and a bridge shelf on top that holds our center channel. I've seen installs where big screen RPTVs like the SXRDs are installed flushed into a wall -- take a look at this guy's install on Blu-ray.com; he is running a 70-inch SXRD:
I just like more space to move around, and that low boy cabinet forces people farther from the screen, reducing the chance that some drunk party guest (or a child!) will damage my screen. If I had the square footage in my house, I would LOVE to build a set... regardless of depth... into the wall so everything is flush. Very cool look, plus lots of storage. The downside to that, however, is something I've seen way too many times: It locks you into a size limit on the TV (and everything else) for future upgrades. My father-in-law LOVES good TVs, and can afford pretty much anything he wants, but the built-in entertainment center he had custom made many years ago covering the entire wall accommodates 55" MAX, so until he's ready to tear EVERYTHING out, there's no way for him to go bigger.

Quote:
Osage_Winter wrote: View Post
Oh, I know about DLP sets being huge -- my folks had a 55" Mitsubishi Diamond Series rear pro that was like a refrigerator in their living room. I have always been told that the newer microdisplay RPTVs like Sony's SXRD were the way to go for huge screens at more affordable prices compared to plasma and LCD.
DLP sets are tiny compared to CRT of similar size. The only difference between DLP size and LCD/Plasma size, however, is depth. You can have a 65" Plasma or LCD set that's a mere 2-3" thick, but a 65" DLP is ~18" thick (~44" tall, close to the LCD/Plasma) ... while the 65" CRT is a whopping 28" deep (and 62" tall!). Plus, with CRT, the whole cabinet will be squared off in a single rectangular block, unlike the sculpted sloping sides of a DLP. (OTOH, this is why you need a stand with DLP, whereas CRT is it's own stand!)

As an aside, yesterday while drooling over the 70" Elite at Magnolia, a possible solution came to me re the issue of lost viewing distance/depth that you get when upgrading from a deep TV to a flat panel: Spend a some money on a really good quality extending TV mount for the set. There are mounts with articulating arms that can allow you to pull the set even 2 feet away from the wall (maybe more). This would let you bring the TV that full 2' farther into the room for formal viewing where immersion is really desired, while keeping the open space in the room during regular living room use needs, and for routine casual television viewing. (No need for immersion to watch a sitcom, but it's nice when you're watching an action movie or hosting a viewing party.) Since this solution came to me, I'll be giving more serious consideration to replacing my 65" RPTV with a 65" flat panel, since I won't lose as much (or any) perceived size as I had feared.


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Old 10-04-11, 06:46 PM   #29
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Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?


Quote:
KalaniP wrote: View Post
"Immersive" the way you get when you are 1.5x screen width distance from the screen? No.

More immersive than you have now, with the smaller set? Absolutely.
Precisely.
Immersive is a subjective and personal concept. No one can tell you how immersive is enough to satisfy you. There is certainly a significant difference in 10 inches at 50-60" sets, IMO, but what is enough or too much for different people will vary. IMO neither is immersive. For others it may be plenty so.


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Old 10-05-11, 06:02 AM   #30
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Osage_Winter, my screen is a 55 inch plasma. In the end, if the movie is good, you will be pulled in and forget about everything else and just enjoy the movie; if it's not then it doesn't matter how large the screen is.

I know what letterboxing and pillarboxing are, and I know 1:85 and those formats are the original scope of the movie, but the important content is always on the middle and would prefer to fill my 16:9 screen then see a movie so thin that it makes no sense watching it on tv.

For the Elite name, Sharp bought the rights to the name, but not the Kuro tech; those went to Panasonic who bought the rights to the Kuro tech.


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