Are external DAC's really better???

[blownrx7]

I have a Simaudio Moon Nova CD player that I modded with Blackgate caps, OPA2604 (I think those are it) op amps, FRED diodes etc. (but no clock mods)and I was (am?) very satisfied with it.
In the never-ending quest to improve upon it, I wanted to try an external DAC.
Now, I went a got a Perpetual Technologies P3A (with Modwright mods) and P1A along with the Monolithic Sound P3 power supply to see if I could do any better soundwise.
The result of using that was less (WAY less) than I expected. I tried all manner of combinations too. The P1A didn't really offer anything significant (I was hoping they would roll out the equalization option for any speaker but that never really happened). and continued to try out the P3 without it in the hope that the P1A was the problem... wishful thinking!
The P3A(Modwright modded) with the P3 ps actually detracted from the sound. It was either the same or lost something. It almost seemed more compressed. Again, I tried all manner of combinations of settings so I determined it was not within the capability of the P3A to improve.

Now, I like the Nova CD player a lot and think with the mods it is a great value play (used of course). But I don't think it is the last word in cd players and was hoping to see an improvement (even a slight one) with the zooted out P3A. Instead it had a negative effect.
Have I reached the point where I would have to take a HUGE step up to see a significant improvement?
Was the P3A just the wrong DAC? Would the Benchmark DAC or ABel Canto DAC3 be any better or, like I said before, do I have to spend a whole lot more??
TIA

[Otto]

Hey Joe,

I'm going through the same thing you are right now, except I'm not happy with my player. Actually, I'm using a digital out from a PC to my Outlaw 990, so I'm using the 990's DACs. I'm frustrated with the Outlaw right now, so I'm considering an external DAC and perhaps a preamp with HT bypass.

Anyway, in the past I've used a Cal Audio Labs Sigma (tube based), and that definitely added a different sound. I sold it a while ago because I wasn't using it, and I wasn't spending much time doing any critical listening. Now I'm back into 2 channel listening (I find it very relaxing), so I want to play with this type of thing again.

My friend has the Benchmark, so I'm sure I can get my hands on one of those for testing. He also has a higher-end Sony CD player that he said was close with the Benchmark. Someone also pointed me to the Channel Island Audio DAC ($599). Both the CI and the Benchmark are touted as "giant killers", so sometimes it's possible to get into this stuff without breaking the bank.

Now, my friend above has a much nicer system that I have, and he was pleased with the Benchmark when compared against much more expensive DACs. If he thought one of the multi-thousand-dollar DACs that he listened to was better, he would have bought it. But he bought the Benchmark. I respect his ear, so I'm pretty sure that the Benchmark won't detract from the music (FWIW he was using a Sunfire Theater Grand 3 or 4 for DACs previously).

So, I'll be considering those two in the near future. As you know, once you get this far into it, things aren't specifically and discernibly "good" or "bad", but they just impart a different quality to the music, and you have to decide if it's "for you", or not.

Have you played with any tube-based DAC or preamp? Some like it, and some don't, but it's defintely a little different than solid state stuff.

[blownrx7]

Hi Otto,
Thanks for the reply. I will keep the Benchmark on my short list.
You bring up a very good point that I may just be reaching a level that I am achieving something "different" and not necessarily better. My only reservation on the Benchmark is that some said it is a little dry or analytical in the highs (typical solid-state?).

I wonder if the only way to alleviate that is to go with a zooted out tube DAC.
I haven't tried a tube DAC. Not opposed to them just haven't heard anyone rave about them without the usual qualifications - i.e soft in the bass or too soft in the mids/highs etc. etc.
I did play with a Musical Fidelity X-10 buffer and really did like it's effect with my modded Pioneer DVD-563a player. In fact I still have the X-10/X-PSU after selling off my X-DAC and X-LP - great stuff for the money! But I digress..
I have this crazy suspicion that in order to do a tube DAC right it will cost me dearly. Heck, just look at the prices some of the modders charge just to convert your existing ss player to a tube based player...
Any thoughts about a tube DAC that does it right without the usual sacrifices???

[jackfish]

For just over $100 delivered you might want to try the Tubalizer from AudioDigit. It can add dynamics to your digital sound that may preclude the need for a separate DAC. I've got one hooked up to my Oppo DV-970HD and it adds a dimension to the sound not previously heard.

http://www.audiodigit.com/index.php?section=81

EDIT: Oh, I see you already have a Musical Fidelity X-10 tube buffer.

[Otto]

blownrx7 wrote:

Any thoughts about a tube DAC that does it right without the usual sacrifices???

Hey there,

Unfortunately, I don't. I have recently been browsing AudiogoN, though, and may pop for something there if I find something cool. I just need to be sure to be able to resell it if it doesn't do me any good.

I'll see how it goes with the Sony CDP and the Benchmark. The Benchmark with go direct to my amp, so I won't have any effect from the Outlaw...

I should hope to have something on that discussion in a week or two.

[blownrx7]

Please do let us know your findings.
I'm going to post my question on Audiogon as well. I know I can expect responses that are all over the map but that's what makes this so much fun, right?

[jackfish]

The DIYEDEN Musiland MD-10 has been getting some interest as a good performer for an economical price. They can be found for $300 or less various places.

The DIYEDEN Great March is an outstanding product for around $450, from some discussion it has been compared favorably to the Benchmark DAC-1.

[blownrx7]

The Musiland MD-10 certainly looks interesting. I especially like the informative display. After using the Perpetual Technologies combo of LED's to discern the operating mode, this is a welcome improvement.

I have a feeling, though, that other than the display, it is another sideways movement in sound quality.
For the price, it seems you can't go wrong. That USB interface option will become the standard equipment on DAC's soon enough.