Headphones - Whats your Pick?

[deacongreg]

WmAx wrote:

Icallio is correct in regards to my intentions in my replies. I am sorry if I was not clear to you.

Headroom has not yet, nor ever, provided any credible evidence to explain reason for any audible difference. Nor has anyone else to my knowledge. But 'balanced' circuits are the current fad, it seems.

FYI: The only legitimate use of balanced circuits to my knowledge is for external signal connections between components (such as source to pre-amp or pre-amp to amplifier) in order to provide for rejection of external noise and prevent ground loops. Of course, this is generally not a problem in typical consumer systems. It is primarily a feature needed for professional use where a large number of long lines are used - and a substantial amount of external interference will probably be present. Also, please note that the use of a balanced stage in regards to line level balanced transmission and reception in components is not applicable to using a balanced output of an amplifier interfaced with a transducer(no noise rejection characteristic is present here).

-Chris

Well, like I stated before Chris, we will end this discussion here. For, while I must assume there might be some credibilty to your beliefs and findings, it is also hard for me to believe that with all the musicians, engineers, and professionals who have I`m sure, knowledge and expertise, either the same or more than yourself, been in the business and profession for a while and know it well, that they are all wrong, and you are the lonely guy that is right. Har to fathom.

So, if I ever am able to have the same opportunities you have had to test, demo this equipment personally on my own, then, I can make up my own mind. But I can not believe that everyone in the AV industry dealing in this area is way off, and you have all the answers. Not everyone, whether it be Headroom, a trained studio engineer, Stereophile, or anyone else.

[WmAx]

deacongreg wrote:

For, while I must assume there might be some credibilty to your beliefs and findings, it is also hard for me to believe that with all the musicians, engineers, and professionals who have I`m sure, knowledge and expertise, either the same or more than yourself, been in the business and profession for a while and know it well, that they are all wrong, and you are the lonely guy that is right. Har to fathom.

This is an unfair statement. The stance I take, is the same as any one that was truly critical and interested in truth would take. Now, it's true that I may sound 'crazy' to the Stereophile or Audio Asylum type of crowd that have little interest in accurate information. This is simply reality. Go to the actual source of real information, such as the JAES (Journal of Audio Engineering Society); the audio equivalent of a medical journal. Any published data/articles in this journal (please do not confuse AES preprints with published JAES articles ; a preprint is simply a submitted/presented paper/article) must pass peer review which as a pre-requisite requires fairly strict scientific methodology to back up claims made in these articles. I am hardly the 'lonely guy' you attempt to illustrate above. You state that some majority of "musicians, engineers, and professionals" would say differently, means nothing, if those people are not being properly critical. In fact, these labels alone mean nothing in regards to their qualification to be truly critical. 'Professional' simply means they get paid. 'Engineer' can mean almost anything. An 'engineer' is no qualification at all of being knowledgeable about perceptual research relevant in his field. Let's take an audio hardware/amp designer/engineer. It simply means he 'designs' the related hardware according to his knowledge of the circuit behavior(s). It certainly does not mean he has to use double blinded bias free listening tests, or even use credible perceptual research to direct his design(s).

Human psychology rains dominant, and being critical to the degree that I am is not naturally convenient to people. Simply examine the nearly universal perception that exotic cables/interconnects have superior/different sound compared to common commodity cables/interconnects. Why is it that most 'experienced' high end audio users will admit to an audible difference, but when put under the condition of a blinded and randomized test, these people can not identify a difference unless the cables in question act as filters due to extreme R, L, C parameter(s), which of course results in easily measurable differences that correlate with known human audibility thresh holds? The only rational explanation, of course, is human psychology.

-Chris

[lcaillo]

WmAx wrote:

The stance I take, is the same as any one that was truly critical and interested in truth would take.

WmAx wrote:

The only rational explanation, of course, is human psychology.

Quotes like these are where I have to suggest that you reel yourself in a bit, Chris.

The first is a condescending dig at the credibility of anyone who does not share your perspectve, challenging the honesty of others who may differ. This is not the way we conduct debate here at the Shack and you need to apologize to all for that comment. You made your opinion clear without this.

The second belies your own bias and belief, which while you shroud it in your reliance on science, is in itself keeping you from being truly objective on the matter. This statement ignores the possibility that there may be factors that are not documented or well understood. The fact is that there is less research out there on the issue than sufficient to be convincing that ALL differences that people claim to here are psychologically explained.

This whole debate needs to be moved to its own thread, and both sides need to produce some credible evidence before anyone is going to be convinced that either is correct. These debates, as I have said before need to be carefully monitored and done in a way that we do not detract from the original thread, nor go down the road of insult nor disrespect. You, as a member of the staff here, should be more careful about how you approach such issues.

I came to this thread to find information about headphones and it has become a debate over a matter that has nothing to do with anyone's choice in headphones. We do not, in most cases, get to choose between balanced and unbalanced connections for a given headphone system. If a vendor chooses one or the other that is part of their system that we have to evaluate, but it is pointless to pull that aspect out as a point of debate between systems. It is definitely a subject that could be of interest to discuss in another thread dedicated to it, but here it is a distraction, and now it has gone to far.

[deacongreg]

WmAx wrote:

This is an unfair statement. The stance I take, is the same as any one that was truly critical and interested in truth would take. Now, it's true that I may sound 'crazy' to the Stereophile or Audio Asylum type of crowd that have little interest in accurate information. This is simply reality. Go to the actual source of real information, such as the JAES (Journal of Audio Engineering Society); the audio equivalent of a medical journal. Any published data/articles in this journal (please do not confuse AES preprints with published JAES articles ; a preprint is simply a submitted/presented paper/article) must pass peer review which as a pre-requisite requires fairly strict scientific methodology to back up claims made in these articles. I am hardly the 'lonely guy' you attempt to illustrate above. You state that some majority of "musicians, engineers, and professionals" would say differently, means nothing, if those people are not being properly critical. In fact, these labels alone mean nothing in regards to their qualification to be truly critical. 'Professional' simply means they get paid. 'Engineer' can mean almost anything. An 'engineer' is no qualification at all of being knowledgeable about perceptual research relevant in his field. Let's take an audio hardware/amp designer/engineer. It simply means he 'designs' the related hardware according to his knowledge of the circuit behavior(s). It certainly does not mean he has to use double blinded bias free listening tests, or even use credible perceptual research to direct his design(s).

Human psychology rains dominant, and being critical to the degree that I am is not naturally convenient to people. Simply examine the nearly universal perception that exotic cables/interconnects have superior/different sound compared to common commodity cables/interconnects. Why is it that most 'experienced' high end audio users will admit to an audible difference, but when put under the condition of a blinded and randomized test, these people can not identify a difference unless the cables in question act as filters due to extreme R, L, C parameter(s), which of course results in easily measurable differences that correlate with known human audibility thresh holds? The only rational explanation, of course, is human psychology.

-Chris

I`m done, as I told you. Your view is all you hear and understand. I did not sign up to this forum for this. And while science is good, there are many examples when we are talking about music and equipment, that science can not verify fully. We are talking about enjoying music, and the equipment that reproduces it, thats all.

So Chris, I`m done converse with you. Its no longer fun anymore.

[deacongreg]

lcaillo wrote:

Quotes like these are where I have to suggest that you reel yourself in a bit, Chris.

The first is a condescending dig at the credibility of anyone who does not share your perspectve, challenging the honesty of others who may differ. This is not the way we conduct debate here at the Shack and you need to apologize to all for that comment. You made your opinion clear without this.

The second belies your own bias and belief, which while you shroud it in your reliance on science, is in itself keeping you from being truly objective on the matter. This statement ignores the possibility that there may be factors that are not documented or well understood. The fact is that there is less research out there on the issue than sufficient to be convincing that ALL differences that people claim to here are psychologically explained.

This whole debate needs to be moved to its own thread, and both sides need to produce some credible evidence before anyone is going to be convinced that either is correct. These debates, as I have said before need to be carefully monitored and done in a way that we do not detract from the original thread, nor go down the road of insult nor disrespect. You, as a member of the staff here, should be more careful about how you approach such issues.

I came to this thread to find information about headphones and it has become a debate over a matter that has nothing to do with anyone's choice in headphones. We do not, in most cases, get to choose between balanced and unbalanced connections for a given headphone system. If a vendor chooses one or the other that is part of their system that we have to evaluate, but it is pointless to pull that aspect out as a point of debate between systems. It is definitely a subject that could be of interest to discuss in another thread dedicated to it, but here it is a distraction, and now it has gone to far.

Yes, I agree with you. I don`t know how we got there. I was talking about how great the headphone listening experience is, and can be. So, lets talk about that.

Example, by March Headroom will be selling the new Sennheiser HD800 headphones. Is anyone out there excited about this new entry?

[WmAx]

lcaillo wrote:

The first is a condescending dig at the credibility of anyone who does not share your perspectve,

While it may seem condescending, this is not intended. But, it seems it's difficult to initialize the much needed reality check without such seemingly being implied.

challenging the honesty of others who may differ.

I never challenged honesty. That really is the point. People 'honestly' believe in many of these cases, what in all realistic probability is not audible difference, but instead psychological difference.

This is not the way we conduct debate here at the Shack and you need to apologize to all for that comment. You made your opinion clear without this.

I really have no idea what it is you intend me to apologize about. If it's about taking the thread somewhat off topic, then I do apologize for that, but I feel compelled to reply to and address obvious improbabilities that are discussed as if they were in fact highly probable.

The second belies your own bias and belief, which while you shroud it in your reliance on science, is in itself keeping you from being truly objective on the matter. This statement ignores the possibility that there may be factors that are not documented or well understood. The fact is that there is less research out there on the issue than sufficient to be convincing that ALL differences that people claim to here are psychologically explained.

Exactly what are you referring to? All I have done is refer to the absolute lack of any credible data that would suggest a 'balanced' drive stage has ANY audible inherent difference, excepting the narrow exclusions I stated earlier in reference to balanced transmission AND receiving blocks that can reject noise in situations where noise can be an issue(and which is not applicable to audio amplifier output stages driving a transducer). I honestly have no idea of what things you speak of that are not documented or well understood, because especially in the area of hardware(amplifiers, DACs, CD players, etc.), I am not aware of any aspect that is not well understood in terms of audible thresholds. In fact, one can reliably predict the outcome of bias controlled DBT tests based on a set of measured behaviors, as is shown in blind test after blind test; the only differences appearing when well known measurable differences are present.

This whole debate needs to be moved to its own thread, and both sides need to produce some credible evidence before anyone is going to be convinced that either is correct.

It merits no thread of it's own, IMO, but if you think this is too off topic, then perhaps you should move all of the relevant posts to a new thread; I can not do this move as I am no longer a moderator here.

BTW, there is no way for me to provide 'credible evidence' of what would amount to a negative proof.

I responded to this issue as a FYI only in regards to the lack of any useful evidence of balanced headphone amplifier outputs having any inherent audible difference. Just as I would point out such unsupported audiophile beliefs in any other area as I would if claims of special 'cable sound' was claimed, or any other outlandish claim, I do so here when it is mentioned. For me to ignore and not point out the likely reality of the situation(s), is for me to do the majority a dis-service: that's the way I see it.

-Chris

[deacongreg]

lcaillo wrote:

Quotes like these are where I have to suggest that you reel yourself in a bit, Chris.

The first is a condescending dig at the credibility of anyone who does not share your perspectve, challenging the honesty of others who may differ. This is not the way we conduct debate here at the Shack and you need to apologize to all for that comment. You made your opinion clear without this.

The second belies your own bias and belief, which while you shroud it in your reliance on science, is in itself keeping you from being truly objective on the matter. This statement ignores the possibility that there may be factors that are not documented or well understood. The fact is that there is less research out there on the issue than sufficient to be convincing that ALL differences that people claim to here are psychologically explained.

This whole debate needs to be moved to its own thread, and both sides need to produce some credible evidence before anyone is going to be convinced that either is correct. These debates, as I have said before need to be carefully monitored and done in a way that we do not detract from the original thread, nor go down the road of insult nor disrespect. You, as a member of the staff here, should be more careful about how you approach such issues.

I came to this thread to find information about headphones and it has become a debate over a matter that has nothing to do with anyone's choice in headphones. We do not, in most cases, get to choose between balanced and unbalanced connections for a given headphone system. If a vendor chooses one or the other that is part of their system that we have to evaluate, but it is pointless to pull that aspect out as a point of debate between systems. It is definitely a subject that could be of interest to discuss in another thread dedicated to it, but here it is a distraction, and now it has gone to far.

I guess you guys work together and have to respond to each other. But, just reading what he said to you, its like he is in his own world. I will not come back to this thread. Amazing, people need to be open to different views and opinions. Once you start accusing folks about their credibity, and not allowing your own views to be open to question, you have problems.
Later guys.

[lcaillo]

deacongreg wrote:

I guess you guys work together and have to respond to each other. But, just reading what he said to you, its like he is in his own world. I will not come back to this thread. Amazing, people need to be open to different views and opinions. Once you start accusing folks about their credibity, and not allowing your own views to be open to question, you have problems.
Later guys.

That is exactly my point. We should not be creating an atmosphere where people don't want to come back. Please feel free to post with good will and understanding within the posting guidelines of the forum. No one should feel that their views are not welcome as long as they treat others with respect.

[mulveling]

deacongreg wrote:

Yes, I agree with you. I don`t know how we got there. I was talking about how great the headphone listening experience is, and can be. So, lets talk about that.

Example, by March Headroom will be selling the new Sennheiser HD800 headphones. Is anyone out there excited about this new entry?

I'm highly interested in the new HD800 because I've been a huge fan of Senn's HD600/HD650. I've had practically everything in the headphone world - the Sony MDR-R10 and Qualia 010, Grado HP-2/RS1/RS2, AKG K1000, Audio Technica L3000/W5000/W2002/W11jpn/W10vtg, Ultrasone Edition 9, yes even the revered Orpheus system (for a month) - I would put the vastly less expensive HD600/650 up at or near any of those. In fact for overall musical enjoyment the HD650 can beat the hell out of most of those (I'm looking at you, Ultrasone, Grado, AKG, any AT other than the L3000)...
If it don't move me with hard rock & metal, then we're gonna have problems. I couldn't care less how great this stuff sounds with Diana Krall, Norah Jones, Patricia Barber, etc.

I prefer the hd650 over the 600, but then the 600 does make its case with a crisper, airier, slightly brighter sound. The 650 has better bass and is a bit smoother - other than that they're very similar.

The problem I have with the 800 is that I'm in the midst of *downsizing*, selling some expensive headphone amps (I picked up a SS Gilmore amp for $200 that is killer; that's where I'm headed, away from tubes), and spending another $1400 is the opposite of where I want to be headed in this hobby. I've been thinking of picking up the 600 again to go with my 650, but that's a far cry from 1400. I think I'll just wait and hope for prices to fall, at least in the used market.

[deacongreg]

mulveling wrote:

I'm highly interested in the new HD800 because I've been a huge fan of Senn's HD600/HD650. I've had practically everything in the headphone world - the Sony MDR-R10 and Qualia 010, Grado HP-2/RS1/RS2, AKG K1000, Audio Technica L3000/W5000/W2002/W11jpn/W10vtg, Ultrasone Edition 9, yes even the revered Orpheus system (for a month) - I would put the vastly less expensive HD600/650 up at or near any of those. In fact for overall musical enjoyment the HD650 can beat the hell out of most of those (I'm looking at you, Ultrasone, Grado, AKG, any AT other than the L3000)...
If it don't move me with hard rock & metal, then we're gonna have problems. I couldn't care less how great this stuff sounds with Diana Krall, Norah Jones, Patricia Barber, etc.

I prefer the hd650 over the 600, but then the 600 does make its case with a crisper, airier, slightly brighter sound. The 650 has better bass and is a bit smoother - other than that they're very similar.

The problem I have with the 800 is that I'm in the midst of *downsizing*, selling some expensive headphone amps (I picked up a SS Gilmore amp for $200 that is killer; that's where I'm headed, away from tubes), and spending another $1400 is the opposite of where I want to be headed in this hobby. I've been thinking of picking up the 600 again to go with my 650, but that's a far cry from 1400. I think I'll just wait and hope for prices to fall, at least in the used market.

Wow, a headphone lover indeed. I first heard those wonderful AKG 1000s years ago, at what was called then, the Stereo Hi-Fi show at the Statler Hilton hotel here in New York. I know at present, their almost impossible to get. What I need is a place to demo these phones. It seems the HD600`s are still a great phone and value. Yet, I would like to compare them to the new running favorite, the AKG 701s.
Likewise, going completely in the other direction, STAX.
For years I have read rave reviews for these electrostatic headphones. However, they are insanely expensive. Have you ever owned any, and if so, what do you think? But, check this, they have come out with two headphones that price themselves right at the AKG`s and Sennheiser`s. The Lambda Basic is what I`m iinterested in, because the original Omega`s and Lambdas cost near 1500.00 - 2000.00.Check this out:

http://www.hometheaterreview.com/equ...ewed002233.php

[mulveling]

deacongreg wrote:

Wow, a headphone lover indeed. I first heard those wonderful AKG 1000s years ago, at what was called then, the Stereo Hi-Fi show at the Statler Hilton hotel here in New York. I know at present, their almost impossible to get. What I need is a place to demo these phones. It seems the HD600`s are still a great phone and value. Yet, I would like to compare them to the new running favorite, the AKG 701s.
Likewise, going completely in the other direction, STAX.
For years I have read rave reviews for these electrostatic headphones. However, they are insanely expensive. Have you ever owned any, and if so, what do you think? But, check this, they have come out with two headphones that price themselves right at the AKG`s and Sennheiser`s. The Lambda Basic is what I`m iinterested in, because the original Omega`s and Lambdas cost near 1500.00 - 2000.00.Check this out:

http://www.hometheaterreview.com/equ...ewed002233.php

Never owned an electrostat - closest was the Orpheus he90/hev90 system I had on loan for a few weeks. My same friend that owns the Orphues also has a Lambda Pro, and we've also heard the Stax Omega II on a few occasions. The electrostat sound - I understand why others go crazy for it, but it has yet to seduce me. They've got great air to their presentation, it's very a open, articulate and "light" sound. Completely smooth and grain-free, which can be a real problem on the lesser dynamics. Gives the sound an "ethereal" quality. On the other hand, it's my opinion that they lack the weighty bass slam and drive of a good dynamic headphone. I like a certain meatiness to my sonic presentation, and an ability to breathe dynamic life into all genres, especially rock/pop/metal. The electrostats just don't pass the hard rock/metal test for me, yet.

You know, the one electrostat that impressed me for sheer price/performance ratio was the Lambda Pro. It embodies all the attributes of electrostats I've described above, and (on the hev90 amp) the ONLY deficiency in comparison to the ridiculously expensive he90 Orpheus headphones was a very SLIGHT honkiness in its handling of dynamic peaks. It's just a very small difference in refinement, for largely the same overall sound signature, with a HUGE spread in cost (I think he got the Lambdas used for $200 or less, plus they can be driven by regular speaker amps via a Stax transformer/"energizer").

I also prefer the "meatier" sounding dynamic headphones like the HD650 and L3000 (on GOOD amps), over stuff like the Sony R10 and AKG K701. The K701 was nice and technically as competent as the HD650, but sounded a bit sterile/analytical over the spectrum, lacked the bass impact, and was brighter - just not my style. The R10 has the MOST GORGEOUS highs & mids with just the perfect touch of warmth, but lacks the bass. The K1000 never bowled me over but that's likely because my speaker amp at the time (Outlaw M200 pair) was not up to the task. It did sound better when I briefly heard it with an RKV Mk II hybrid amp. I also like the HD600, just slightly less than the HD650 - its a LOT like the 650 but just a touch brighter, less meaty, and perhaps airier as well. I like the Sony Qualia, but that headphone is just so far out there unlike any other headphone I've heard; it's hard to describe. Interestingly, it looks like Sennheiser copied/mirrored a lot of the design of the Qualia in their new HD800 - the ring radiator driver, the semi-open design, the weird pseudo-horn loading of the drivers, the angled mounting...

[1artist]

Studio monitor headphones that I also use for playing live with a Roland TD-20 drums or GT-10 guitar effects - the Audio-Technica ATH-M40fs are extremely clear, balanced and non-fatiquing. Great reviews - pro and consumers alike.

For cordless - Sennheiser HDR 130's. Very acceptable audio for music and HT. Has setting for surround HT. Great battery life. Great user reviews.

[deacongreg]

mulveling wrote:

Never owned an electrostat - closest was the Orpheus he90/hev90 system I had on loan for a few weeks. My same friend that owns the Orphues also has a Lambda Pro, and we've also heard the Stax Omega II on a few occasions. The electrostat sound - I understand why others go crazy for it, but it has yet to seduce me. They've got great air to their presentation, it's very a open, articulate and "light" sound. Completely smooth and grain-free, which can be a real problem on the lesser dynamics. Gives the sound an "ethereal" quality. On the other hand, it's my opinion that they lack the weighty bass slam and drive of a good dynamic headphone. I like a certain meatiness to my sonic presentation, and an ability to breathe dynamic life into all genres, especially rock/pop/metal. The electrostats just don't pass the hard rock/metal test for me, yet.

You know, the one electrostat that impressed me for sheer price/performance ratio was the Lambda Pro. It embodies all the attributes of electrostats I've described above, and (on the hev90 amp) the ONLY deficiency in comparison to the ridiculously expensive he90 Orpheus headphones was a very SLIGHT honkiness in its handling of dynamic peaks. It's just a very small difference in refinement, for largely the same overall sound signature, with a HUGE spread in cost (I think he got the Lambdas used for $200 or less, plus they can be driven by regular speaker amps via a Stax transformer/"energizer").

I also prefer the "meatier" sounding dynamic headphones like the HD650 and L3000 (on GOOD amps), over stuff like the Sony R10 and AKG K701. The K701 was nice and technically as competent as the HD650, but sounded a bit sterile/analytical over the spectrum, lacked the bass impact, and was brighter - just not my style. The R10 has the MOST GORGEOUS highs & mids with just the perfect touch of warmth, but lacks the bass. The K1000 never bowled me over but that's likely because my speaker amp at the time (Outlaw M200 pair) was not up to the task. It did sound better when I briefly heard it with an RKV Mk II hybrid amp. I also like the HD600, just slightly less than the HD650 - its a LOT like the 650 but just a touch brighter, less meaty, and perhaps airier as well. I like the Sony Qualia, but that headphone is just so far out there unlike any other headphone I've heard; it's hard to describe. Interestingly, it looks like Sennheiser copied/mirrored a lot of the design of the Qualia in their new HD800 - the ring radiator driver, the semi-open design, the weird pseudo-horn loading of the drivers, the angled mounting...

You said a lot here. First, It still seems like, especially now that they are discounted some what, that the HD600`s are a good buy right now, and you don`t lose or suffer much in sound quality. Not familar at all with these Sony`s R10`s your talking about. Are they still available, or discontnued now, and what price range are they in? Sounds like the STAXS are good, but lack bass. Maybe I should just forget them, for 2000.00 is a bit high for me right not.
I`m thinking about a headphone amp, and either 701`s in white, Sennheiser HD600/650`s, and if i can hear them - this new Stax Lambda Nova Basic for 399.99. How did you get to hear the Qualia? Tried to get to SONY here in Manhattan, but was too late for an audition, they were already sent back.

i`ve heard great things about the Orpheus, its too bad they dropped it.

[deacongreg]

slwiser wrote:

I am using two pair of headphones today in my systems. The Ultrasone Edition 9 is the better of the two. The Audio-Technica AT-ESW9 is my portable. The ESW9 has displaced my AT-ANC7 in my use. One would say that I am a hard-core headphone user. I have dedicated amps and sources just for them.

Other headphones that have come and gone but which I have enjoyed are:

AT-W5000 with it's matching amp the AT-HA5000;
AT-W1000;
AT-A900LTD;
AT-EW9;
Beyer DT880;
Ultrasone Proline 2500;
Ultrasone iCan;

My sources are the Lavry DA10 and a Beresford TC-7510 Mk6/v3 digital analog converters.
My amps are the Berning micro-ZOTL and Yamamoto HA-02 (SEP).
Cables are Bettercables Silver Serpert and Virtual Dynamic Nite with Carda XLR-RCA Rhodium adapters for the Lavry DA10's XLR input.

I am using computer files in the FLAC format. These are being converted from USB to S/PDIF using either my M-Audio USB Audiophile or the Hagtech.com's HagUSB-XLR devices. I also stream my files from my computer over to my easy chair to a Squeezebox 3 into the Beresford feeding the micro-ZOTL.

For my portable I use the custom modified iPod 5.5g into a Portable amp from Xin called the Reference. Or I use this as a fixed unit using a dock on my table next to my easy chair from ALO. This dock uses Auricap's since the internal iPod coupling caps have been bypassed. For my iPod I use Apple Lossless format for all my music.

Yamamoto HA-02 headphone amp:


Berning micro-ZOTL:


Lavry DA10;


Ultrasone Edition 9 headphone on my ear:


Audio-Technica AT-ESW9:


Modified iPod in custom Dock from ALO located at my computer before moving it over to my easy chair area:


Atlantis Reference 3 Audio Rack beside my easy chair. This is a PR picture from manufacturer:

Those Audio Technica`s are very nice. With the solid wood look,sharp.

[deacongreg]

daniel wrote:

I used to have stax headphone. I wouldn't go for anything less.

I may look into one now, their new Lambda Nova Basic System. Its only 399.99. Priced right at the top of the line AKG`s and Sennheiser. I have always wanted a pair of Stax`s for years. But 1500.00 - 2000.00 is still a lot of money. Its good to see someone there was thinking about the rest of us. Check these out, and letme know what you think. BTW, what Staxs do you own? The Lambdas or Omegas?

http://www.hometheaterreview.com/equ...ewed002074.php

[deacongreg]

drf wrote:

Don't believe everything you read, and question what you do believe.
E.G Sennheiser get awesome reviews for their wireless headphones, yet I measured a pair just last week and they could not reproduce above 7Khz. A simple FR test, I bet if I grabed a cheap set (A$50) of sony wired headphones they would reproduce at least to 18Khz.

A lot of the reviews on the net are written by people who know what they like but don't like what is not fasionable.

Food for thought anyway.

I hear you. The real issue is, that for the most part, you have to buy headpones w/o listening to them!! I`m sure none of us here would buy a pair of speakers without listening to them first. With your source material. So your left to the reviewer. Thats why I like Headroom - Right Between your Ears. They have built an excellent reputation of guys who specialize and love headphones. They Have a wide selection of headphone amps, and headphones.
But you make a very good point.

[deacongreg]

JCD wrote:

I've actually listed to these at a local headphone meet:

Sennheiser Orpheus -- $15,000! Are they nice? Absolutely. Are they worth $15K -- I don't think I could justify that cost even if I were Bill Gates.

In real life, I have two sets of cans I use:

AKG K701 -- these just sound awesome to me. Someday I'll finish my headphone amp and really be able to take advantage of them, but still, they sound great to me. I've seen them online for $250 delivered.

Sennheiser HD280 Pro -- these are the cans I use when I want to block out the world. They're not as good or as comfortable as the 701's, but they're not bad. I think you can find these for ~$70 now.

JCD

aWESOME, i`VE ALWAYS WANTED TO LISTEN TO THE oRPHEUS.They must be excellent, justification, well like other things in the high end, some things we can buy, others are to dream, pray, and maybe even lust after. But, I would feel better, if I could at least hear or be able to play with the mega buck equipment, at least my curiousty about its performance would be satisfied.

BTW, Cary Audio Design, who I believe makes some of the most beautiful looking components, has just come out with a new tube headphone amplifier for us headphone lovers, here it is:

http://www.hometheaterreview.com/av-...999.php#_login

[deacongreg]

While we are talking about headphones here, I`m sure you realize that Denon has been getting major press now on their line of AH-D headphones? In particular, the AH-D 7000?

http://www.hometheaterreview.com/av-...ones002586.php

[deacongreg]

JCD, slwiser, and mulveling,
The Grace 902 headphone amp seems to be one of the top amps available for high end headphone listening. Have any of you had the opportunity to audition this Grace?

http://www.hometheaterreview.com/equ...ewed002095.php

[mulveling]

deacongreg wrote:

You said a lot here. First, It still seems like, especially now that they are discounted some what, that the HD600`s are a good buy right now, and you don`t lose or suffer much in sound quality. Not familar at all with these Sony`s R10`s your talking about. Are they still available, or discontnued now, and what price range are they in? Sounds like the STAXS are good, but lack bass. Maybe I should just forget them, for 2000.00 is a bit high for me right not.
I`m thinking about a headphone amp, and either 701`s in white, Sennheiser HD600/650`s, and if i can hear them - this new Stax Lambda Nova Basic for 399.99. How did you get to hear the Qualia? Tried to get to SONY here in Manhattan, but was too late for an audition, they were already sent back.

i`ve heard great things about the Orpheus, its too bad they dropped it.

The HD600 is a indeed great buy, but for some (me included) the 650 will be well worth the extra cost (and it's not really that much on the used market) for the improved bass response. Those who love more bass-light sound signatures like those of the Staxes or AKG 701 will probably prefer the HD600, though. The bass response and a slightly smoother treble (both in favor of the 650 IMO) is the main difference between the HD600/HD650.

The Staxes have a different sound and lack that "notch" in the FR graph treble region because they are not diffuse field equalized like the Sennheisers and other dynamic headphones (the claim is that this is done to avoid a resonance spike at around that frequency).

The Sony MDR-R10 had an MSRP of $4K and had around 2000 units produced over a run of about 15 years. Unmistakable for its HUGE, gorgeously crafted wooden cups with the insides precisely hollowed out to replicate the feeling of listening in a concert hall (really worked to some degree). I used to own a pair. The best midrange of any headphones ever, period IMO. The best headphones for classical/opera, ever. Where it lacked was in bass slam, severity depending on which "version" you happened to get. The later serial #s tend to offer the best bass (I've heard about 4 different pairs). Still, if you want to rock out - I prefer a number of choices, like the L3000, Qualia, HD650, HP1000.

The only SPEAKERS I've heard match/exceed the beauty of those R10 mids are the Tannoy Prestige Kensington SE, which I am currently hoping/attempting to acquire Of course being speakers, they also do all those speaker things that headphones can't replicate.



I've owned the Qualia for over 2 years now, however I'm currently in the process of working out their sale. Below are some of the pics I took for my sale ad. It's engineering that oozes quality and beauty - truly amazing what Sony can (could) do when it dedicates its mind power and budget.











After having heard it all headphone-wise (well, close enough), I've decided that the relatively modest setup of HD650 with a Headamp Gilmore Reference (single-ended version) out of my SOTA Star III turntable (Benz Glider L2 cart) best hits my performance requirements over all aspects of sound quality without spending gobs of money for what I found to be mostly negligible enhancements in particular areas or (most commonly) a trade-off of one aspect of SQ to the detriment of another (in other words a side-grade). I'm currently going through the process of selling stuff to raise funds for the speakers I really want.

[slwiser]

deacongreg wrote:

Those Audio Technica`s are very nice. With the solid wood look,sharp.

Since that post my setups have evolved a bit. I still have the Ultrasone Edition 9 feed by a Yamamoto HA-02 headphone amp which is getting it's feed from a Lavry DA10 DAC feed from my desktop computer using a M-Audio USB Audiophile USB converter.

But I now have a second home setup at my easy chair which involves a electrostatic system which includes a Stax SR-007MkII headphone and a Headamp KGSS amplifer. This amp is feed by another Lavry DA10 which gets it's feed from my Squeezebox.

For portable and transportable setups I now am using a TTVJ Portable Hybrid Millet amp with the iMod (modified iPod). I also have replaced that AT ESW9 with the AT-ESW10JPN. It is even better sounding than the ESW9. I also have a small Nuforce Icon Mobile Dac/Amp to work with a Sansa Fuse. This one is highly portable.

I have on order the new Ultrasone Edition 8 (UE8) and a Headamp Pico Dac(USB)/Amp to enhance my portable setups. The Pico will be feed by me Dell Mini9 with outboard USB hard drive as a music server for a very nice transportable setup. I plan on using the UE8 with this.

Here is a picture of the ESW10 with the iMod and TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid:



The nice AT case carries all this.

Here is another nice portable setup using the Sansa Fuse, Nuforce Icon Mobile and Sleek SA6 wireless with a range of about 50 ft. This wireless is CD quality.



Here is my electrostatic setup, the Stax SR-404 on the left and the Stax SRM-T1S down below have been sold. The big llack box that the headphones are setting on is the Headamp KGSS. It has big blackgate caps coming out the back and those look like stacks. You just can catch a glimpse of one of those between the two headphones with a slightly blueish color on the top.

[deacongreg]

mulveling wrote:

The HD600 is a indeed great buy, but for some (me included) the 650 will be well worth the extra cost (and it's not really that much on the used market) for the improved bass response. Those who love more bass-light sound signatures like those of the Staxes or AKG 701 will probably prefer the HD600, though. The bass response and a slightly smoother treble (both in favor of the 650 IMO) is the main difference between the HD600/HD650.

The Staxes have a different sound and lack that "notch" in the FR graph treble region because they are not diffuse field equalized like the Sennheisers and other dynamic headphones (the claim is that this is done to avoid a resonance spike at around that frequency).

The Sony MDR-R10 had an MSRP of $4K and had around 2000 units produced over a run of about 15 years. Unmistakable for its HUGE, gorgeously crafted wooden cups with the insides precisely hollowed out to replicate the feeling of listening in a concert hall (really worked to some degree). I used to own a pair. The best midrange of any headphones ever, period IMO. The best headphones for classical/opera, ever. Where it lacked was in bass slam, severity depending on which "version" you happened to get. The later serial #s tend to offer the best bass (I've heard about 4 different pairs). Still, if you want to rock out - I prefer a number of choices, like the L3000, Qualia, HD650, HP1000.

The only SPEAKERS I've heard match/exceed the beauty of those R10 mids are the Tannoy Prestige Kensington SE, which I am currently hoping/attempting to acquire Of course being speakers, they also do all those speaker things that headphones can't replicate.



I've owned the Qualia for over 2 years now, however I'm currently in the process of working out their sale. Below are some of the pics I took for my sale ad. It's engineering that oozes quality and beauty - truly amazing what Sony can (could) do when it dedicates its mind power and budget.











After having heard it all headphone-wise (well, close enough), I've decided that the relatively modest setup of HD650 with a Headamp Gilmore Reference (single-ended version) out of my SOTA Star III turntable (Benz Glider L2 cart) best hits my performance requirements over all aspects of sound quality without spending gobs of money for what I found to be mostly negligible enhancements in particular areas or (most commonly) a trade-off of one aspect of SQ to the detriment of another (in other words a side-grade). I'm currently going through the process of selling stuff to raise funds for the speakers I really want.

First, thanks for the pictures, the Sony MDR10`sare beautiful. May I ask what your selling them for? Probably to rich for me, but..............Also, the Qualia`s, for you can`t get them anymore. I spoke to Sony in Manhattan.

Better bass on the HD 650`s, hmmmm. I decided to go for the HD600`s because the difference I kept reading about was yes, bass, but an overall darker sounding headphone in the 650. And I figured, that is something I did not want. But now your saying the difference is major..But I`m thinking, even with the Sony MDR10`s and Qualia`s, you mentioned lack of bass also. At those prices, its hard for me to believe they are lacking to that degree.

Then again, you have owned them all, so you should know. I`m just wondering maybe if you just like a lot of bass with your music, or if your talking about that these phones are missing just the lowest octaves, frequencies of the low end?

The Qualia`s are an interesting looking design as well. And yes, when Sony does put its mind to do something, they are one of the best out there.

[deacongreg]

slwiser wrote:

Since that post my setups have evolved a bit. I still have the Ultrasone Edition 9 feed by a Yamamoto HA-02 headphone amp which is getting it's feed from a Lavry DA10 DAC feed from my desktop computer using a M-Audio USB Audiophile USB converter.

But I now have a second home setup at my easy chair which involves a electrostatic system which includes a Stax SR-007MkII headphone and a Headamp KGSS amplifer. This amp is feed by another Lavry DA10 which gets it's feed from my Squeezebox.

For portable and transportable setups I now am using a TTVJ Portable Hybrid Millet amp with the iMod (modified iPod). I also have replaced that AT ESW9 with the AT-ESW10JPN. It is even better sounding than the ESW9. I also have a small Nuforce Icon Mobile Dac/Amp to work with a Sansa Fuse. This one is highly portable.

I have on order the new Ultrasone Edition 8 (UE8) and a Headamp Pico Dac(USB)/Amp to enhance my portable setups. The Pico will be feed by me Dell Mini9 with outboard USB hard drive as a music server for a very nice transportable setup. I plan on using the UE8 with this.

Here is a picture of the ESW10 with the iMod and TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid:



The nice AT case carries all this.

Here is another nice portable setup using the Sansa Fuse, Nuforce Icon Mobile and Sleek SA6 wireless with a range of about 50 ft. This wireless is CD quality.



Here is my electrostatic setup, the Stax SR-404 on the left and the Stax SRM-T1S down below have been sold. The big llack box that the headphones are setting on is the Headamp KGSS. It has big blackgate caps coming out the back and those look like stacks. You just can catch a glimpse of one of those between the two headphones with a slightly blueish color on the top.

Well, you have been very busy. Congrats on all of this. I finally found the only dealer in New York that carries Stax, American Audiophile in Lynbrook Long Island. About an hours drive for me. So, I gonna call and make sure I can demo these electrostatics, and hear what everyone has been raving about for years. They also carry Grado, so I can compare them with the RS1`s and GS1000`s.
Unfortunately, no Sennheiser or AKG. I just got hip to TTVJ a week ago. I`m largely a Headroom fan. I just found out about the people at Head-fi and TTVJ.

All these years, even when I sold their mics and cartridges, I had no idea Audio Technica made and sold headphones. You learn something new everyday. How is that TTVJ amp?

Its clear, I need to make a decision. But, unlike speakers, that none of us would purchase w/o listening to them first, in most cases, headphones you have too!! I`m having trouble getting over that one.

[deacongreg]

mulveling,

BTW, I was on Ultrasones website reading about their S - Logic Natural Surround Sound technology. I saw no mention of the Ultrasone 9 headphones, are they now discontinued?

[slwiser]

Yes, the Edition 9 is discontinued.

They are now showing an Edition 8 but they say it is not an exact replacement. The Edition 8 is more focused on being portable application.

Greg

That TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid has a real full and powerful sound using my UE9s. I am listening as I type right now with it as my amp. I would put this up against a lot of home desktop amps in the same price range and it is very small, using tiny micro-tubes.